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"He is highlighting that there is only one religion ordained by God and it is not Muhammadanism, Judaism or Christianity but simply "obeying God" ("keeping the commandments"). "
But since, according to Judaism, there are different sets of commandments incumbent of different groups, there is no single way of life that falls on everyone. So there is no one single religion. If we say that every person has the responsibility to "go to work" that doesn't mean that there is only one job. Different jobs for different people.
The "different paths" means that within the bonds of following the particular set of laws which apply to non-Jews, there are different ways to recognize or relate to God that are outside of Judaism and yet still valid, whether or not they are divine revelations (Judaism doesn't believe that the initial Abrahamic understanding of monotheism was a divine revelation).
The professor is reporting that according to Muslims, because the word islam refers to a generic submission to God, anyone who submits to God (no doubt in a way condoned by Islam as a religion) is practicing islam/submission.
"He is highlighting that there is only one religion ordained by God and it is not Muhammadanism, Judaism or Christianity but simply "obeying God" ("keeping the commandments"). "
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends
But since, according to Judaism, there are different sets of commandments incumbent of different groups, there is no single way of life that falls on everyone.
The common denominator is "obeying God". When one obeys God, one submits to God, one walks before God, one is in "islam".
There were different set of commandments to Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel) and sons of Israel than the set of commandments to Moses and the Israelites coming from Egypt with him. All had to obey whatever commands came to them. It is obeying those commands that is called "islam" in Arabic. The person obeying the commands is called "muslim" in Arabic. It is for this reason that Abraham was a Muslim rather than a Jew. The word "Jew" is linked more to a certain genealogy rather than a particular religion. You can be son of a Jewess and not obey any command. You are still a Jew. But if you are son of a Jewess and obey all the commands from God you are not only a Jew but also a Muslim. One's genealogy is not lost by becoming a Muslim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends
So there is no one single religion. If we say that every person has the responsibility to "go to work" that doesn't mean that there is only one job. Different jobs for different people.
In that case, "going to work" is the religion that is common denominator. You can't do any job without doing work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends
The "different paths" means that within the bonds of following the particular set of laws which apply to non-Jews, there are different ways to recognize or relate to God that are outside of Judaism and yet still valid, whether or not they are divine revelations (Judaism doesn't believe that the initial Abrahamic understanding of monotheism was a divine revelation).
There is nothing in Judaism that is not due to the divine revelation. Why should Judaism recognize "different paths" that are not due to the divine revelation but are still valid. I don't believe that this is true belief in Judaism. I believe that Judaism is the closest belief to the Islamic belief. Both revolve around divine revelations.
As for Abraham's initial belief, may be not very initial but all the rest was certainly due to the Divine revelations. You can read all about it in the Genesis account. Monotheism existed from the outset of mankind. Noah was aware of it before Abraham. Abraham's father was a polytheist. It was Abraham who broke the ranks with his father and left his father due to the divine revelation.
In the Qur'an, Abraham is mentioned as the pure monotheist and that is what we are to follow; pure monotheism. Muhammad didn't create a new faith. Even he is told that his faith/tradition is to follow faith/tradition of Abraham (submitting to God). It is from Abraham that real large monotheist group began. Before him monotheism was fragmented and almost destroyed due to the widespread idol worshiping.
Muslims do not believe that Islam is a new religion but an ongoing religion being put back on the rails again. Jesus also did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it by putting it back on the rails. It is the people who named one "Judaism" and the other "Christianity".
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosends
The professor is reporting that according to Muslims, because the word islam refers to a generic submission to God, anyone who submits to God (no doubt in a way condoned by Islam as a religion) is practicing islam/submission.
That's how I see it too. This is why we call ourselves "Muslims" and not "Muhammadans". This is also why our religion is not "Muhammadanism" but "Islam" (al-islam to be perfect).
The person obeying the commands is called "muslim" in Arabic. It is for this reason that Abraham was a Muslim rather than a Jew.
But what you just did in the English is to capitalize a letter. This makes a world of difference. Abraham might have done an action which in Arabic is "muslim" but he was not an adherent to the religion which is called Islam. Just because you eat a pastry that is a danish doesn't make it a Danish food.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
The word "Jew" is linked more to a certain genealogy rather than a particular religion. You can be son of a Jewess and not obey any command. You are still a Jew. But if you are son of a Jewess and obey all the commands from God you are not only a Jew but also a Muslim. One's genealogy is not lost by becoming a Muslim.
That's only partially accurate. The word "Jew" developed from a national identity but it also was applied to those who converted into the religion. So it isn't solely about genealogy but about faith. Sure, I can say that someone who thinks about ideas as universal a "catholic thinker" but it would be wrong to call him a Catholic thinker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
In that case, "going to work" is the religion that is common denominator. You can't do any job without doing work.
Also not accurate on a few levels. One can hold a sinecure without doing work. But the point was that the job is the religion and there are many different jobs to hold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
There is nothing in Judaism that is not due to the divine revelation.
Then you don't understand Judaism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
Why should Judaism recognize "different paths" that are not due to the divine revelation but are still valid. I don't believe that this is true belief in Judaism. I believe that Judaism is the closest belief to the Islamic belief. Both revolve around divine revelations.
In a sense, everything is due to divine revelation because of the text of the Torah. But if you grow up and follow the basic moral code which happens to coincide with the 7 noachide laws, you have followed a valid path without any revelation. If you follow Islam which is not the function of a divine revelation but which has a code which (ostensibly) conform to9 the 7 laws, that is considered by many to be a valid path for non-Jews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
As for Abraham's initial belief, may be not very initial but all the rest was certainly due to the Divine revelations. You can read all about it in the Genesis account. Monotheism existed from the outset of mankind.
Not the way Abraham's was created. There is more to the story than you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif
Muslims do not believe that Islam is a new religion but an ongoing religion being put back on the rails again.
And this is what the professor in the video is saying -- that this is a Muslim belief.
That is not correct. Judaism recognizes obeying God (keeping the commandments) is the only way to God. The Torah makes it clear (Exodus 15:26, Deuteronomy 6:2, 13:4).
Why if he recognizes many paths to God? Why pick only the one of them?
It is so for a specific reason; it is to stop diluting the genealogy.
Which other paths does a Jew recognize and, in the Torah, what is this belief based on?
Does a Jew recognize Christianity and Islam (i.e. whatever Jesus and Muhammad preached as revelations from God)?
Where is "Judaism" mentioned in the Torah?
Where is "Christianity" mentioned by Jesus?
In other words, what was religion of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel), Joseph and Moses and Jesus called?
The names "Judaism" and "Christianity" are a later developments. None of these figures called their religion as such during their lifetime. Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian. He never called his religion "Judaism".
The professor is making an important point. He is highlighting that there is only one religion ordained by God and it is not Muhammadanism, Judaism or Christianity but simply "obeying God" ("keeping the commandments"). Such action is called "islam" in Arabic. And whoever acts in this way is "muslim" in Arabic (there are no capital letters in Arabic).
Basically, the Qur'an tries to bring ALL believers on one platform as children of Adam. This is to eliminate division on racial and genealogy grounds. Anyone can be "muslim" if s/he believes and obeys God. Such action is not inheritance of only Arabs, Hebrews, Pakistanis, Egyptians, blacks or whites but of anyone can inherit it. No single genealogy or race has ownership of it. It is open to ALL.
Regarding last line of post, God is available to everyone. That is what Judaism recognizes. We all have access to God. It is not limited to one religion or one specific religious word or name or one holy book or one prophet.
Everyone has access to God. Everyone. Regardless of their language or culture.
Just like we all need food for nourishment however there are different foods in different cultures. But they all are for nourishment. Just like there are different languages in different cultures but they are all for communication.
No one says tacos are the only food and everyone must eat tacos and nothing else. No one says Swahili is the only language and no other language can be spoken.
So too there are different religions in different cultures. The purpose is to nourish our closeness to God. But there is no single way that everyone must do that.
If the goal is to be inclusive then the language needs to be inclusive and not proprietary. These phrases have a very different feeling tone are you able to see and hear that?
"We are all beloved children of the Creator"
"Monotheism recognizes that one God makes everything"
"Everyone is a Muslim. Islam is the one true religion."
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-20-2017 at 10:25 AM..
Regarding last line of post, God is available to everyone. That is what Judaism recognizes. We all have access to God. It is not limited to one religion or one specific religious word or name or one holy book or one prophet.
Everyone has access to God. Everyone. Regardless of their language or culture.
Just like we all need food for nourishment however there are different foods in different cultures. But they all are for nourishment. Just like there are different languages in different cultures but they are all for communication.
No one says tacos are the only food and everyone must eat tacos and nothing else. No one says Swahili is the only language and no other language can be spoken.
So too there are different religions in different cultures. The purpose is to nourish our closeness to God. But there is no single way that everyone must do that.
If the goal is to be inclusive then the language needs to be inclusive and not proprietary. These phrases have a very different feeling tone are you able to see and hear that?
"We are all beloved children of the Creator"
"Monotheism recognizes that one God makes everything"
"Everyone is a Muslim. Islam is the one true religion."
Dear lady, you and I have much more in common with Mystic than we have differences, and probably with Hindus and Sikhs, too, and it could be with the majority of Muslims - if only they were the ones to be spokesperson rather than the Fundamentalists.
Dear lady, you and I have much more in common with Mystic than we have differences, and probably with Hindus and Sikhs, too, and it could be with the majority of Muslims - if only they were the ones to be spokesperson rather than the Fundamentalists.
my views have very little in common with the views held by Mystic and held by you.
so feel free to speak for yourself, but not for me. thank you.
i agree that your views and the views held by Mystic have very much in common, nearly identical.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-20-2017 at 11:38 AM..
...
Which other paths does a Jew recognize and, in the Torah, what is this belief based on?
....
Judaism recognizes that if a non-Jew follows the 7 Noachide laws it is a valid path to God. A person who accepts these obligations is considered a righteous person who is guaranteed a place in the world to come.
When King Solomon built the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, he specifically asked God to heed the prayer of non-Jews who come to the Temple (1-Kings 8:41-43). http://www.aish.com/w/nj/For_Non-Jews.html
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-20-2017 at 12:18 PM..
my views have very little in common with the views held by Mystic and held by you.
so feel free to speak for yourself, but not for me. thank you.
i agree that your views and the views held by Mystic have very much in common, nearly identical.
Very well dear lady, I shall accept your poke in the eye with good grace
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