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What do you think of this phenomenon from a psychological point of view?
This is a very interesting BBC documentary about this phenomenon. In my opinion, there are parallels to the story of Ebenezer Scrooge, though I don't know where Charles Dickens could have possibly gotten his inspiration from. I also believe that this is something that Paul may have experienced, if we can understand Paul from a non-religious point of view. The "near death" part may have been spiritual (psychological) rather than physical, but I'm not sure if there is really much difference between them in regards to their positive effects.
The particular segment in question starts at 44:30 where a man who was a very wealthy Wall Street investor changed his entire life afterwards. But I would recommend watching all the other segments after this. Even though I believe these are nothing more than just regular dreams, they can have a profound impact on the person experiencing them.
Wikipedia
Near-Death Experience
Altered blood gas levels: low oxygen levels (and G-LOC)
Low oxygen levels in the blood (hypoxia or anoxia) have been hypothesized to induce hallucinations and hence possibly explain NDEs This is because low oxygen levels characterize life-threatening situations and also by the apparent similarities between NDEs and G-force induced loss of consciousness (G-LOC) episodes. These episodes are observed with fighter pilots experiencing very rapid and intense acceleration that result in lack of sufficient blood supply to the brain. Whinnery studied almost 1000 cases and noted how the experiences often involved "tunnel vision and bright lights, floating sensations, automatic movement, autoscopy, OBEs, not wanting to be disturbed, paralysis, vivid dreamlets of beautiful places, pleasurable sensations, psychological alterations of euphoria and dissociation, inclusion of friends and family, inclusion of prior memories and thoughts, the experience being very memorable (when it can be remembered), confabulation, and a strong urge to understand the experience." However, hypoxia-induced acceleration's primary characteristics are "rythmic jerking of the limbs, compromised memory of events just prior to the onset of unconsciousness, tingling of extremities ..." that are not observed during NDEs. Also G-LOC episodes do not feature life reviews, mystical experiences and "long-lasting transformational aftereffects", although this may be due to the fact that subjects have no expectation of dying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience
Studies indicate that NDE's, as well as OBE's (Out of Body Experiences) are physiological in nature and occur when the brain is struggling to cope with varying types of stress.
Ozzy wanted to look at the positive psychological effects of NDE's, I believe (based on his o.p.). I don't think that's science forum fodder and does seem, to me, to be appropriate for the spiritual forum.
Agreed. What we call spiritual is what science calls consciousness which is separate from our physical being and not well understood, hence the subject of debate.
Wikipedia
Near-Death Experience
Altered blood gas levels: low oxygen levels (and G-LOC)
Low oxygen levels in the blood (hypoxia or anoxia) have been hypothesized to induce hallucinations and hence possibly explain NDEs This is because low oxygen levels characterize life-threatening situations and also by the apparent similarities between NDEs and G-force induced loss of consciousness (G-LOC) episodes. These episodes are observed with fighter pilots experiencing very rapid and intense acceleration that result in lack of sufficient blood supply to the brain. Whinnery studied almost 1000 cases and noted how the experiences often involved "tunnel vision and bright lights, floating sensations, automatic movement, autoscopy, OBEs, not wanting to be disturbed, paralysis, vivid dreamlets of beautiful places, pleasurable sensations, psychological alterations of euphoria and dissociation, inclusion of friends and family, inclusion of prior memories and thoughts, the experience being very memorable (when it can be remembered), confabulation, and a strong urge to understand the experience." However, hypoxia-induced acceleration's primary characteristics are "rythmic jerking of the limbs, compromised memory of events just prior to the onset of unconsciousness, tingling of extremities ..." that are not observed during NDEs. Also G-LOC episodes do not feature life reviews, mystical experiences and "long-lasting transformational aftereffects", although this may be due to the fact that subjects have no expectation of dying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience
Studies indicate that NDE's, as well as OBE's (Out of Body Experiences) are physiological in nature and occur when the brain is struggling to cope with varying types of stress.
This is a great video on hypoxia (awesome YouTube channel too). Incredible how people can feel on cloud 9 or drastically different.
So you want for scientists to discuss this? Not just this, but Saint Paul, and Charles Dickens? Interesting.
Suddenly this topic is not "religious" enough for yourself? Interesting.
Actually, Charles Dickens was quite religious. Yet, I don't think that by your current standards, he would even be considered "religious" enough for you.
Charles Dickens was a good writer. Not a scientist. If you want his views on NDE's it is not going to be a scientific approach. Same with St Paul.
While that wouldn't be Too Scientific for the forum, I don't see what it would do other than provide yet another platform for those trying to convince the doubters that this is hard evidence for Christianity.
Charles Dickens was a good writer. Not a scientist. If you want his views on NDE's it is not going to be a scientific approach. Same with St Paul.
While that wouldn't be Too Scientific for the forum, I don't see what it would do other than provide yet another platform for those trying to convince the doubters that this is hard evidence for Christianity.
Anyway, if the Mods let it run on, so be it.
I think you have completely missed the point of my original post.
the brain is the brain. It dies in similar ways during similar type shut down processes.
what other memories would it use but its own?
I just don't get how people can just ignore logic to save and emotional belief base belief statement.
oh wait, I can. Mordofarant than anything else, showed me how its possible using atheism belief statements that ignore science, so I guess its possible for theists too.
Charles Dickens was a good writer. Not a scientist. If you want his views on NDE's it is not going to be a scientific approach. Same with St Paul.
While that wouldn't be Too Scientific for the forum, I don't see what it would do other than provide yet another platform for those trying to convince the doubters that this is hard evidence for Christianity.
Anyway, if the Mods let it run on, so be it.
since when does your sect of atheism care what science shows? Or how the universe does work? some of you feel that religion is so dangerous you are justified in changing, minimizing, and shunning science that does not sell your belief about atheism and religion?
soooo much more executive functioning you guys got there.
I think you have completely missed the point of my original post.
remember ozz, his sect of atheism is about anti-religion. Logic is ok to use, so long as it supports his belief statement. Like most emotional beliefs there is a disconnect when logic doesn't support it. They just ignore it. Just like fundy's do, oh wait,
milli mental personality types = fundy mental personality types.
I don't think all NDEs are good, positive experiences, although the good ones probably sell better on TV.
A good friend of mine had one - flatlined on the operating table after having major heart surgery and it was an upsetting, guilt and anxiety producing experience for him.
My guess is that no one would want to interview him or write about such experiences. We know they happen sometimes, and my guess is that they happen a lot more than is reported. What people want is confirmation of their beliefs, so that is what they focus on.
I think you have completely missed the point of my original post.
Perhaps. The OP was about the 'spiritual' effect of NDE's rather than support for any particular religion. But the point I made is still the same. What causes NDE's is increasingly looking like a medical -physical effect and is just stuff happening to the brain. It's like assuming that it is something "spiritual" before we know that it is, and when it rather looks that it isn't.
But then I suppose a lot of the religion debates are that way. Anyway, it's up to the mods.
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