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Old 01-13-2018, 11:09 PM
 
34 posts, read 10,340 times
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Haha! Sure thing preacher man. Let's see your rebuttal. So far you've offered nothing that even resembles a counter at all. If you're just going to basically say "I'm wrong" without actually backing that up with evidence and argument then go away. You're just a waste of the space on this thread.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Land of the Tonkawa and Kiowa
3,629 posts, read 1,336,207 times
Reputation: 4919
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMoreThanYou View Post
Haha! Sure thing preacher man. Let's see your rebuttal. So far you've offered nothing that even resembles a counter at all. If you're just going to basically say "I'm wrong" without actually backing that up with evidence and argument then go away. You're just a waste of the space on this thread.
Well, if anyone's a preacher here, it's you. You're on your pedestal, rambling on and on with your feverish pitch. I have no need to say anything on my own. All I need to do is point to what you're doing.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:18 PM
 
37,055 posts, read 24,931,674 times
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Default The physical resurrection of Jesus was a legend that evolved over time

The physical resurrection was necessary "carnal milk" for the men of the time who were absolutely terrified of Spirits. They simply were not ready for the "solid Food" Paul explained in 1 Cor 15:35-58:

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Land of the Tonkawa and Kiowa
3,629 posts, read 1,336,207 times
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That's good Mystic, but AtheistMan KMTY isn't going to listen to anything that doesn't line up with his thinking. He doesn't believe in the Bible, and will reinterpret those verses into something heavily mutated.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:40 PM
 
20,141 posts, read 15,463,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMoreThanYou View Post
For the record, I responded to Mike555 but he totally ignored and didn't even address the majority of my OP in the other thread. I'm not expecting much more here from him. It will probably be the usual baseless assertions, straw man arguments, and total refusal to actually interact with what I've posted at all. That's what I'm used to anyways.
Actually, I've addressed your argument quite thoroughly. So this is how it's going to be. Disingenuous statements on your part. No big surprise.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:45 PM
 
34 posts, read 10,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Well, if anyone's a preacher here, it's you. You're on your pedestal, rambling on and on with your feverish pitch. I have no need to say anything on my own. All I need to do is point to what you're doing.

OK that was your last chance. You obviously aren't capable of responding to the actual material I've provided. What I'm doing is showing that legendary growth is a more probable hypothesis than a first century Jewish man literally rising from his grave. The earliest and only firsthand source speak of visions. You don't get the "physical" stuff until the story evolves through the decades and those sources are not firsthand. Why should we take ancient Jewish claims of spiritual visions seriously?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:49 PM
 
34 posts, read 10,340 times
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As for 1 Cor 15:40-44, notice how Paul distinguishes between different "types" of bodies there. The natural/earthly body stays on earth and the new "spiritual body" is in heaven. He doesn't say that your corpse will rise out of a grave. Jews knew that your physical body would decompose and return to dust - Gen. 3:19. According to Paul, the resurrection would involve a new "spiritual body" in heaven. This spiritual entity wasn't able to be touched. No, according to Paul, it was experienced through "visions" and "revelations."
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Land of the Tonkawa and Kiowa
3,629 posts, read 1,336,207 times
Reputation: 4919
Your opinion is heavily outweighed by millions who believe the resurrection of Jesus, based on scripture, eyewitnesses (those who knew him), and what they believe in their "heart"/mind. Nothing more needs to be said, and you'll get no converts here.

P.S. I really don't care what Paul says/said. He wasn't around at the time of the resurrection. I'm interested in hearing about those who were around him, and personally knew him. Praise God for the resurrected Jesus! HAHA!
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:51 PM
 
34 posts, read 10,340 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Actually, I've addressed your argument quite thoroughly. So this is how it's going to be. Disingenuous statements on your part. No big surprise.
Did you find that ever elusive passage where Paul says the Risen Jesus was experienced in a way that was not a vision? Does Paul give any evidence for anything "physical" like the gospel resurrection reports tell us? For instance, does he mention that the Resurrected Jesus walked around on earth before floating to heaven?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:52 PM
 
34 posts, read 10,340 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Your opinion is heavily outweighed by millions who believe the resurrection of Jesus, based on scripture, eyewitnesses (those who knew him), and what they believe in their "heart"/mind. Nothing more needs to be said, and you'll get no converts here.
Nice argumentum ad populum. Tell me more about your fallacious ways oh wise one.
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