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Old 01-13-2018, 08:57 PM
 
34 posts, read 10,733 times
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The resurrection is a legend that grew over time. Watch how experiencing the Risen Jesus gets more "physical" in chronological order. Scholarly consensus dating places the documents as follows:

Paul c. 50 CE - is the only firsthand report. He says the Risen Jesus "appeared" ὤφθη in 1 Cor 15:5-8. The word ὤφθη (Greek - ōphthē) is the aorist passive form of the word ὁράω (horao). Notice how this word doesn't necessarily mean physical eyesight.

horáō – properly, see, *often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).*

Paul says Jesus was experienced through "visions" and "revelations" - 2 Cor 12:1. The appearance to Paul was a vision/revelation - Gal. 1:12-16, Acts 26:19 (not a physical encounter with a revived corpse) and he makes no distinction between what he "saw" and what the others "saw" in 1 Cor 15:5-8. He had a chance to mention the empty tomb in 1 Cor 15 when it would have greatly helped his argument but doesn't. Paul's order of appearances: Peter, the twelve, the 500, James, all the apostles, Paul. No location is mentioned.

Mark c. 70 CE - introduces the empty tomb but has no appearance report. Predicts Jesus will be "seen" in Galilee. The original ends at 16:8 where the women leave and tell no one. Mark's order of appearances: Not applicable.

Matthew c. 80 CE - has the women tell the disciples, contradicting Mark's ending, has some women grab Jesus' feet, then has an appearance in Galilee which "some doubt" - Mt. 28:17. Matthew also adds a descending angel, great earthquake, and a zombie apocalypse to spice things up. If these things actually happened then it's hard to believe the other gospel authors left them out, let alone any other contemporary source from the time period. Matthew's order of appearances: Two women, eleven disciples. The appearance to the women takes place near the tomb in Jerusalem while the appearance to the disciples happens on a mountain in Galilee.

Luke 85-95 CE - has the women immediately tell the disciples, contradicting Mark. Jesus appears in Jerusalem, not Galilee, contradicting Matthew's depiction and Mark's prediction. He appears to two people on the Emmaus Road who don't recognize him at first. Jesus then vanishes and suddenly appears to the disciples. This time Jesus is "not a spirit" but a "flesh and bone" body that gets inspected, eats fish, then floats to heaven while all the disciples watch - conspicuously missing from all the earlier reports. Luke's order of appearances: Two on the Emmaus Road, Peter, rest of the eleven disciples. All appearances happen in Jerusalem.

John 90-110 CE - Jesus can now walk through walls and has the Doubting Thomas story where Jesus gets poked. Jesus is also basically God in this gospel which represents another astonishing development. John's order of appearances: Mary Magdalene, eleven disciples, the disciples again plus Thomas, then to seven disciples. In John 20 the appearances happen in Jerusalem and in John 21 they happen near the Sea of Galilee on a fishing trip.

As you can see, these reports are inconsistent with one another and represent growth that's better explained as legendary accretion rather than actual history. If these were actual historical reports that were based on eyewitness testimony then we would expect more consistency than we actually get. None of the resurrection reports in the gospels even match Paul's appearance chronology in 1 Cor 15:5-8 and the later sources have amazing stories that are drastically different from and nowhere even mentioned in the earliest reports. The story evolves from Paul's spiritual/mystical Christ all the way up to literally touching a resurrected corpse that flies to heaven! So upon critically examining the evidence we can see the clear linear development that Christianity started with spiritual visionary experiences and evolved to the ever-changing physical encounters in the gospels.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:09 PM
 
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It was closed because it was inappropriate for the Christianity Forum. It is appropriate for this forum
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:29 PM
 
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So rather than replying to me on the thread which I posted here in the religion forum in reply to your now closed thread on the Christianity forum, you just decided to ignore it and repost your original thread here.

And by the way, what an arrogant and pretentious screen name you've chosen to use.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:32 PM
 
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The dude worked hard on that Op. He just didn't want it to go to waste. You might want to cut him some slack here. You would want others to do the same for you.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:36 PM
 
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For the record, I responded to Mike555 but he totally ignored and didn't even address the majority of my OP in the other thread. I'm not expecting much more here from him. It will probably be the usual baseless assertions, straw man arguments, and total refusal to actually interact with what I've posted at all. That's what I'm used to anyways.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:39 PM
 
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He responded to you here: Refuting the claim made by a poster that the Physical Resurrection of Jesus was a Legend that grew over time.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:43 PM
 
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I've responded. Hopefully we can just move all the discussion here.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Land of the Caddo and Tonkawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And by the way, what an arrogant and pretentious screen name you've chosen to use.
Absolutely And the name, plus the incessant posting of this message - delivered "ram down your throat" style - shows no openness or willingness to leave room for true discussion. As well, all the points in the original message are just interpretations (okay, extremely flawed interpretations), too far off to even warrant discussion.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:57 PM
 
34 posts, read 10,733 times
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Interpretations? Uh no, I literally just relayed what the documents actually say.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Land of the Caddo and Tonkawa
3,954 posts, read 1,487,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMoreThanYou View Post
Interpretations? Uh no, I literally just relayed what the documents actually say.
Maybe in your mind, but others see how far off you drifted. You reached your conclusions first, and they colored and clouded your interpretations.

You've set up your mind to work in opposition to God and scripture. You'll never be capable of seeing what's written in your current state. The first step is to take down that wall. Then, maybe there is a chance and hope of seeing clearly.
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