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Old 04-03-2018, 07:22 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,862 posts, read 6,328,434 times
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Wait, are we supposed to accept free will to be an atheist now? I've been watching Robert Sapolsky and he makes a really good case against free will. At least free will exists only in boring places like which shirt to wear.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:04 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,731,784 times
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In fact the problem is not in what free will is, or isn't but in human modes of thinking, the desire to put concepts in boxes and slap definitions on which than apparently define what is in the box rather than telling us what sort of thing is in there.

Free will is like random. There are causes or reasons why a particle or human thought acts as it does or goes where it does. But because we can't see or know what they are, we ignore them and take it as having no cause or direction. Thus in one sense free will is an illusion because there are mechanisms and causes going on, but free will is also a perfectly valid concept for the human who isn't just driven by blind instinct but can make choices and reject one idea and opt for another, even if there are reasons why (not always known to us) we did so.

In any case, this is nothing to do with trying to determine what free Will actually is, but is merely trying to say that atheists don't know what they are talking about as they are always changing their minds about whether free will is real or not. Therefore the theists can dismiss anything the atheists say and the Theological claims about it must be the True default explanation.

Totally wrong and yet another example of Theistic faith -based and biased wrong headedness,

It is not a bad thing where something is still not well understood to change your mind as new evidence comes up. "We don't know" is the right answer when we don't and "We know on faith" is the wrong one.

Not only because not knowing what free will is and how it works or whether there is such a thing or not does NOT mean that 'God made it and gave it to us as a way of making us take the blame for everything he does.' automatically by default becomes the true explanation (1) but because having opted for a faith based position on free will, if science or atheists or philosophy should come up with an agreed and sound explanation, that doesn't fit in with what they believe, they will reject it no matter how sound the argument or the evidence.

(1) Theists of course think it does because they believe all that on faith and think that atheism has the responsibility to disprove it. It does not. (Burden of proof)
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,190,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Irreligious Theist.
...snip....
No, not really.

L8 wins the prize!
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:12 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,731,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
No, not really.

L8 wins the prize!
an·i·mism (ăn′ə-mĭz′əm)
n.
1. The belief in the existence of individual spirits that inhabit natural objects and phenomena.
2. The belief in the existence of spiritual beings that are separable or separate from bodies.
3. The hypothesis holding that an immaterial force animates the universe.
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Old 04-04-2018, 03:37 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,781 posts, read 4,986,375 times
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Atheist autism or Religious lunacy. I don't know which is worse.
This sounds like you are saying autism is a mental illness. Or have I read this wrong?
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:16 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,068,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
This sounds like you are saying autism is a mental illness. Or have I read this wrong?
The autism spectrum can sometimes develop into/as mental handicaps. A lot of people consider "handicaps" exchangeable with "illness."
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:50 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,731,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes View Post
This sounds like you are saying autism is a mental illness. Or have I read this wrong?
Isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
The autism spectrum can sometimes develop into/as mental handicaps. A lot of people consider "handicaps" exchangeable with "illness."
Sorta. It isn't just not being very logical.
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Old 04-05-2018, 08:24 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,068,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Isn't it?



Sorta. It isn't just not being very logical.
Autism is so vaguely defined. The Autism spectrum keeps widening. Autism includes intellectually gifted individuals (who might be socially inept or communicationally/emotionally handicapped or whatever else)
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:37 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,584,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Wait, are we supposed to accept free will to be an atheist now? I've been watching Robert Sapolsky and he makes a really good case against free will. At least free will exists only in boring places like which shirt to wear.
no, only certain denominations of atheism define the universe through atheism. Most others just let the universe show us how it works.

IE; no free will as defined. Your brain makes choices, but it can't pick a choice outside of its state at any given time. Like if I go into an ice cream parlor and have stake and eggs. Part of the illusion of free will is brain state changes through time.
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Old 04-05-2018, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Northern Maine
5,466 posts, read 3,065,768 times
Reputation: 8011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
no, only certain denominations of atheism define the universe through atheism. Most others just let the universe show us how it works.

IE; no free will as defined. Your brain makes choices, but it can't pick a choice outside of its state at any given time. Like if I go into an ice cream parlor and have stake and eggs. Part of the illusion of free will is brain state changes through time.
Disbelief in free will is a choice,
Choice is free will.
If you conclude you lack free will,
then you are correct.
But only for you.
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