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The fact that there are religions all over the world desiring to reach a God, however they identify with God, however ways of worship, is indicative of a strong desire within the human phyquie to want to relate to a higher entity.
To give understanding and purpose to life in the midst of a world of decay and hopes of a better place.
I understand and agree with what you said, it does not mean that there is a God or many gods.
I understand and agree with what you said, it does not mean that there is a God or many gods.
No it doesn't but it strongly suggests there is. Case in point: the native Americans. Before the settlers ever came to the Americas the natives had a sense of a higher spirit, unknown to their understanding, so they would name the spirit according to the circumstances.
The whole universe, the micro universe, the methodical means by how everything is organized, functions and purpose strongly indicates a higher intelligence.
This higher intelligence can be addressed in/by many different ways and could humanly be understood.
Scientist understand things by what knowledge they process while the common-er/simple folks understand by what they know.
Not one over the other, IMOP, because we all die the same death.
So, the urge to live on, even after the physical death, is very strong.
No it doesn't but it strongly suggests there is. Case in point: the native Americans. Before the settlers ever came to the Americas the natives had a sense of a higher spirit, unknown to their understanding, so they would name the spirit according to the circumstances.
The whole universe, the micro universe, the methodical means by how everything is organized, functions and purpose strongly indicates a higher intelligence.
This higher intelligence can be addressed in/by many different ways and could humanly be understood.
Scientist understand things by what knowledge they process while the common-er/simple folks understand by what they know.
Not one over the other, IMOP, because we all die the same death.
So, the urge to live on, even after the physical death, is very strong.
I disagree with two points
1. That people believed in afterlife snd spirits strongly suggests that it is true. It only shows a desire to explain what we do not know even if it is simply explained by God's did it
2. That scientists are much different than what you say about the common man.
3. I was wrong, the third thing is that humans see patterns where none exist hence we see patterns and believe that they must be designed. That gravity works in such a way that planets form around stars and revolve around them neither argues for a creator nor that if gravity was just a little bit different the planets might be slightly different as well.
Anthropocentrism is NOT a necessary default for considering our purpose nor does it necessarily imply superiority over other life - just a different role.
The very definition of Anthropocentrism not only implies but states very clearly that human beings are the most significant entity of the Universe.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It was long but my wife and I enjoyed it as we are sympathetic to its message.
Glad you both enjoyed it!
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Proclaiming that there is NO purpose for our existence requires that we believe that we have the capability to know whether or not there is a purpose. This invests us with far more intellectual and investigatory power than we can justifiably establish. I just intimated that we do not have the ability to know but the fact that our consciousness produces the ability even to ask such questions (among other things) suggests a higher purpose than mere survival and existence.
That's your perspective...another perspective is that we are no more special or hold a special purpose than any other life form that has evolved on earth. We are just in a different era of time with respect to the age of the Earth and environmental conditions that shaped our evolution in the manner that it has.
Can you tell us the purpose that modern humans hold with respect to their appearance on Earth 200,000 years ago? What deep spiritual purpose did the evolution of this species bring to others and the world?
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Originally Posted by Matadora
All of our reality can be measured I am not sure where you are getting 95+%? Just because we don't know what 96% of the Universe is made up of does not mean that is equates to the same percent of our reality that we can't directly measure.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You just contradicted yourself. If we do NOT know what 96% of our reality is made of, it means we cannot measure it directly nor any fields that it might harbor.
Actually it's not a contradiction if you understand that Dark Matter is not distributed uniformly in Space especially around the earth and Sun.
If our Solar System had the same ratio of Dark Matter to Normal Matter as the Universe at large has, we would be dominated by it and there would be clear signs of this. Instead, we find that our Solar System has a typical Dark Matter density and an extremely high Normal Matter density.
1. That people believed in afterlife snd spirits strongly suggests that it is true. It only shows a desire to explain what we do not know even if it is simply explained by God's did it
2. That scientists are much different than what you say about the common man.
3. I was wrong, the third thing is that humans see patterns where none exist hence we see patterns and believe that they must be designed. That gravity works in such a way that planets form around stars and revolve around them neither argues for a creator nor that if gravity was just a little bit different the planets might be slightly different as well.
Patterns? Yes, of course. Stars for navigation, moon for the night, Sun for the Day, rotation of the plants for calendar creation. I mean patterns are limitless in number.
Things just don't happen unless they are programmed to happen.
How, could anyone not question why, what, where and when things happened/happens and not attribute it to a higher intelligence?
Seeking for something will not end until it is found. When it is found seeking stops.
The belief in God and faith in the sciences never ends because we will not find answers we seek thereby, a n unsolved mystery that lingers.
Meantime, if the sciences satisfies the desire to seek than seeking ends. Likewise, the seeking for a higher entity, God, stops....that to ends.
I'd say.....common sense says to err on the side of hope of the hereafter. For if........there is a Creator...we ought to be the most blessed of all His creations.
Patterns? Yes, of course. Stars for navigation, moon for the night, Sun for the Day, rotation of the plants for calendar creation. I mean patterns are limitless in number.
Things just don't happen unless they are programmed to happen.
How, could anyone not question why, what, where and when things happened/happens and not attribute it to a higher intelligence?
Seeking for something will not end until it is found. When it is found seeking stops.
The belief in God and faith in the sciences never ends because we will not find answers we seek thereby, a n unsolved mystery that lingers.
Meantime, if the sciences satisfies the desire to seek than seeking ends. Likewise, the seeking for a higher entity, God, stops....that to ends.
I'd say.....common sense says to err on the side of hope of the hereafter. For if........there is a Creator...we ought to be the most blessed of all His creations.
So when a rock falls off a Monta in it was programmed t9 d9 that at a specific time and to a specific place? Your responding to this post is part of a bigger plan? Every flood or avalanche is proffered of a God? Learning to avoid a traffic accident goes against this plan?
Yes the pattern of the Sun is useful in plant rotation, however the Sun was there for billions of years without plants and a couple of billion years before agriculture. We use stars for navigation because they are there. We have looked for patterns because it makes navigation by them easier. The lwavers dont turn bright cours in the fall bease we wis to take phots of that. Nextra we wI'll fin oUT that there aRe mountains so that prole can skill or CaCanadian Nadia pRainie winters aRe lon so that there was time for curling..
As far as moon for night, why is the moon out during the day and what purpose is there for a new moon? If all these were patterns for humans then why not the rotation 9f the sun an even number of days that could be divided by the number of months, why is the moon cycle not matching the Earth's rotation? Not having a leap year in years ending in 00 but divisible by 400 is not much of a design for us.
If one kept seeking until it was found, how do you explain finding golf balls someone else lost?
You are looking at things backwards. We use patterns that we find useful. The patterns were not placed there by an intelligence unless it was a very sloppy intelligence.
I don't think science is a desire to find something and then stopping but a means to discover more all the time. If you stopped once you found what you think is God how d9 you know that more seeking would not find a better or more true God or that your God is not in fact Satan?
It is very 3asy to find patterns in nature, or causes of actions or processes without seeing a single hint of an intelligent higher power. Read A Wonderful Life by Stephen Jay Gould and come back and explain the meanings of the patterns of animals that are preserved in the Burgess Shale.
Back to front, upside down and inside out; whatever expression one wants to use. It is begginning with a God -plan and fiddling the evidence (Data) to fit that belief. And as you pointed out, anything that doesn't fit is ignored.
Anthropocentrism is NOT a necessary default for considering our purpose nor does it necessarily imply superiority over other life - just a different role. It was long but my wife and I enjoyed it as we are sympathetic to its message. Proclaiming that there is NO purpose for our existence requires that we believe that we have the capability to know whether or not there is a purpose. This invests us with far more intellectual and investigatory power than we can justifiably establish. I just intimated that we do not have the ability to know but the fact that our consciousness produces the ability even to ask such questions (among other things) suggests a higher purpose than mere survival and existence. You just contradicted yourself. If we do NOT know what 96% of our reality is made of, it means we cannot measure it directly nor any fields that it might harbor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora
The very definition of Anthropocentrism not only implies but states very clearly that human beings are the most significant entity of the Universe.
Glad you both enjoyed it!
That's your perspective...another perspective is that we are no more special or hold a special purpose than any other life form that has evolved on earth. We are just in a different era of time with respect to the age of the Earth and environmental conditions that shaped our evolution in the manner that it has.
Can you tell us the purpose that modern humans hold with respect to their appearance on Earth 200,000 years ago? What deep spiritual purpose did the evolution of this species bring to others and the world?
I disavow the Anthropocentric view, Mat. I merely pointed out that it is not a necessary attribution just because we support a purpose to existence. But to rule a purpose out does require a supreme overconfidence in our intellectual and investigatory abilities. Asserting a purpose for existence does not mean we must know what it is but my view is that our purpose is to reproduce the consciousness of God.
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Actually it's not a contradiction if you understand that Dark Matter is not distributed uniformly in Space especially around the earth and Sun.
If our Solar System had the same ratio of Dark Matter to Normal Matter as the Universe at large has, we would be dominated by it and there would be clear signs of this. Instead, we find that our Solar System has a typical Dark Matter density and an extremely high Normal Matter density.
Thanks for the cites, Mat. However, neither dark matter nor dark energy are measurable with our current technology so to make any claim about what they are or are not made of or what fields may or may not be part of them is spurious.
Logic is used to reach a conclusion using the most accurate route available to us mankind. Common sense however is not always accurate and can sometimes be based on assumptions, social acceptance and no facts.
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The American writer H L Mencken once said “There is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.” He was referring to ‘common sense’, which can be superficially plausible and sometimes right, but often wrong.
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In other words, common sense is not necessarily supported by evidence or reasoning. As such, beliefs based on common sense are unreliable.
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Einstein’s theories of relativity were initially resisted, even by the scientific community, because they defied common sense.
I disavow the Anthropocentric view, Mat. I merely pointed out that it is not a necessary attribution just because we support a purpose to existence. But to rule a purpose out does require a supreme overconfidence in our intellectual and investigatory abilities. Asserting a purpose for existence does not mean we must know what it is but my view is that our purpose is to reproduce the consciousness of God.
You keep posting about there being a purpose to our existence but you never state what you think this purpose is.
Can you tell us the purpose that modern humans hold with respect to their appearance on Earth 200,000 years ago?
What deep spiritual purpose did the evolution of this species bring to others and the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Thanks for the cites, Mat. However, neither dark matter nor dark energy are measurable with our current technology so to make any claim about what they are or are not made of or what fields may or may not be part of them is spurious.
No claim about what Dark Matter is made up of is mentioned in anything I posted. I am merely pointing out that I was not contradicting myself since Dark Matter is not distributed uniformly in Space especially around the earth and Sun. Think about it...if our Solar System had the same ratio of Dark Matter to Normal Matter as the Universe at large has, we would be dominated by it and there would be clear signs of this. Researchers are able to infer the existence of Dark Matter only from the gravitational effect it seems to have on visible matter...thus we would see this but we don't because our Solar System has a typical Dark Matter density and an extremely high Normal Matter density.
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