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Old 12-17-2018, 05:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
I do understand what you are talking about. I spent decades passionately seeking God, studying theology, praying and "being still before the Lord". But ultimately what I found was that I was listening intently to dead air, and anything I thought I was "receiving" turned out to be a product of my own mind, my confirmation bias. I have looked, sensed, listened and tested within myself and my own experience, and found no divine, no God, nothing. It was not until I hit the end of my rope, put aside my preconceived expectations, and waited on a God who never came, that I started to evaluate evidence, read and listen to others as they grappled with the same thing.



If my inner sense, my "listening in", my experience of the spiritual is what we are supposed to rely on instead of reason, logic, and evidence, I still come to the same place. Namely, that there is no deity, at least not of the sort that interacts with humanity in any degree.



-NoCapo

for me, in the middle, i see atheistic perspective story and I see their theist perspective story. and I am left thinking the answer is in between.
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Old 12-17-2018, 05:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
"Proof" is a very subjective concept because it is subject to arguments on just what should be considered proof of anything. The best we can hope to achieve on a website like this is to establish some level of likelihood.
na, he is right. the average guy just looking for what is going on isn't hanging in forums. They may lurk, get some data, and move on. its clear that many anti-religious and 'my religion only" types here don't care.

if it was about the most likely answer, or the at least the more valid claim, this issue would be settled already. its somewhere in between "deny everything" and "My god only". we would be saying "due to my atheism I have to answer ....".
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Old 12-17-2018, 05:52 PM
 
Location: USA
3,279 posts, read 1,132,166 times
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Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Millions of people have chose Heaven through Jesus to be their life after death , and Even God tells the church today to go out and get more people to come as many are going to hell as God needs all people to go to heaven ........ , Yes God said in the church were I go that many people are going to hell , as Hell is not a invention of man ....... So people who ignore the call of God will get a wake up call in the after life but it will be to late .....
If God speaks to your church congregation you should probably look around for a guy with a microphone.

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Old 12-17-2018, 05:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post

In this thread, you are seeking a singular and common 'reality' that can never be. This isn't science, or a scientific law. It operates on an entirely different plane which doesn't subscribe to rules and set laws.
why? i have a ton of experience with people. There are 5 main categories that answers every irrational stance i have ever come in contact with. abused, addict, mental, trauma, the rest of us. In fact, the only time I have seen this fail is when people say "we are all the same". and it fails for the person saying it.

I consider far left and far right mental ... just saying ...
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Old 12-17-2018, 06:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
for me, in the middle, i see atheistic perspective story and I see their theist perspective story. and I am left thinking the answer is in between.
I am curious what you see as being between. Logically speaking, there is not a lot of room between X and !X. It’s like saying you thinking the answer to a math problem is the integer between 0 and 1...

I get that you seem to see a continuum like,” god<——->something<——>no god”. It just seems a bit silly, because “something” is either a god or it is not. I think there is a whole lot of “something” in the cosmos, I just have yet to see a good reason to think it is divine...

-NoCapo
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Old 12-17-2018, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
I am curious what you see as being between. Logically speaking, there is not a lot of room between X and !X. It’s like saying you thinking the answer to a math problem is the integer between 0 and 1...
It is more like it is the EXACT value of Pi.
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:04 PM
 
11,190 posts, read 4,350,827 times
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Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
I am curious what you see as being between. Logically speaking, there is not a lot of room between X and !X. It’s like saying you thinking the answer to a math problem is the integer between 0 and 1...

I get that you seem to see a continuum like,” god<——->something<——>no god”. It just seems a bit silly, because “something” is either a god or it is not. I think there is a whole lot of “something” in the cosmos, I just have yet to see a good reason to think it is divine...

-NoCapo

I don't do divine at all. "divine" is emotional need based. I don't do super natural ether past the most basic definition of "unknown".
i don't see one thing that isn't a continuum? peoples height? non-life to life? particles? thought patterns? why does it have to be a god or no god? why can't it just be the universe? in all its wonders? whatever that is.

I said it many times. I don't know. all i can do is take a measurement and do a calculation and see if anything shakes out. based on those two things, well, and some science and engineering training, ... all I am willing to say is that we are in a system of life, the biosphere, and we sense our connections to it. I can go just a tad further because of the actual measurement, it may be alive. its not a god as taught in many religions.

I am not willing to go any further and any less, is less valid.

mystic is right. its like pi.

3.14, is just fine. going past 7 decimal places doesn't do any body any good for the most part. 3.2 is good, but not enough for most things. 3 is just, well, go get a better ruler and use 3.14.

The universe is doing you. we are not separate or distinct from it in anyway. any trait you apply to you, you must necessarily, at least, say some volume of the universe has that trait. thats a pi of 3.14
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:49 PM
 
Location: USA
3,279 posts, read 1,132,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
na, he is right. the average guy just looking for what is going on isn't hanging in forums. They may lurk, get some data, and move on. its clear that many anti-religious and 'my religion only" types here don't care.

if it was about the most likely answer, or the at least the more valid claim, this issue would be settled already. its somewhere in between "deny everything" and "My god only". we would be saying "due to my atheism I have to answer ....".
What we should reasonably expect to encounter on a religious open discussion forum such as this is non believers explaining in great detail just why religion is undeniable hokum, and Christians explaining in great detail just why their claims are undeniably true. What we actually encounter however are non believers explaining in great detail just why religion is undeniable hokum, and Christians whining about what bad people non believers are. And somehow an incredible God sent opportunity to "spread the Good News" is being completely squandered. If Jesus hadn't been dead for 2,000 years he would be ashamed of them.

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Old 12-18-2018, 07:41 AM
 
3,419 posts, read 2,178,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
I don't do divine at all. "divine" is emotional need based. I don't do super natural ether past the most basic definition of "unknown".
i don't see one thing that isn't a continuum? peoples height? non-life to life? particles? thought patterns? why does it have to be a god or no god? why can't it just be the universe? in all its wonders? whatever that is.

This is the source of my confusion. You seem very keen to make a large and important distinction between me and my view of the world and you and your view of the world, and yet, I can't for the life of me understand what it is. You first say you don't do "divine" or supernatural, which would seem to rule out "god" for any meaningful definition, and then you ask why does it have to be "god or no god". You have already said you have ruled out god just a few sentences before!



I don't disagree with you, I don't think "god" is a useful or meaningful answer to anything. I think we should take the universe for what it is, as it is, and use the best tools we have to understand it. I just fail to see why you think your views are so fundamentally different from mine. You seem to be trying to make a distinction where there is none, and I am not sure why.



-NoCapo
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:54 AM
 
3,419 posts, read 2,178,427 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is more like it is the EXACT value of Pi.

The exact value of Pi is an integer between 0 and 1? My, someone needs a bit of remedial math! I hope that wasn't in your dissertation...



But to indulge your nonsequiteur and change topic, I would say that Pi is a fitting analogy for reality itself.

It is what it is, it is not changing, it is (to the best of our knowledge) infinite, and while we may never be able to represent it exactly, we are constantly improving our knowledge and understanding of it, we have methods for doing so reliably, and we have been able to calculate, understand, and harness it sufficiently to accomplish quite a lot.



And at no point in the investigation of Pi did we need to declare reason and logic useless, no need for "non-overlapping magisteria", no need for deep meditation to impart universal truth to us, and no need to Just Believe...


So, yeah, Pi is not a bad analogy at all...


-NoCapo
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