Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Are you suggesting that James Madison, Ben Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, and George Washington were Atheists? Certainly, several of the prominent politicians of the day left writings behind that left specifics about their religious beliefs in question, several of them might best be classified as Deists, but none of these people left any evidence that they did not believe in God. It is certainly possible that some were Atheists. Nobody in 17th Century Philadelphia would have admitted it if it had been so, but it is possible that a few of them actually did not Believe and knew better than to ever say so.
A number of the men at the Constitutional Convention were Freemasons, including Washington, Franklin, and Madison. Joining the Freemasons requires that a man be willing to state that he has a belief in a Supreme Being, thus eliminating Atheists from membership.
Who are these Atheists that you think wrote the Constitution?
In post # 252, I suggested that the founding fathers of America (including those who wrote the constitution) were predominantly Christians.
And if they wanted to impose a “Christian Sharia law” (that TRNASPONDER is verg scared of), there would be hardly anyone stopping them. But they didn’t.
So if Christian Sharia Law was not imposed at that time, then it’s very unlikely that it would be imposed now.
So instead of getting scared of the idea that Christians are going to impose the Christian Sharia Law in USA, the Atheists should be thankful to Christians, because it’s the Christians who gave you this country to live freely to begin with. And it’s the same Christians who gave you the right of free speech, under which, the unthankful Atheists now demean and attack Christianity.
In post # 252, I suggested that the founding fathers of America (including those who wrote the constitution) were predominantly Christians.
And if they wanted to impose a “Christian Sharia law” (that TRNASPONDER is verg scared of), there would be hardly anyone stopping them. But they didn’t.
So if Christian Sharia Law was not imposed at that time, then it’s very unlikely that it would be imposed now.
So instead of getting scared of the idea that Christians are going to impose the Christian Sharia Law in USA, the Atheists should be thankful to Christians, because it’s the Christians who gave you this country to live freely to begin with. And it’s the same Christians who gave you the right of free speech, under which, the unthankful Atheists now demean and attack Christianity.
They did not write the Constitution as Christians. In truth, several of the founders, including Washington, Franklin, and Jefferson, can hardly be seen to practice any religion at all. These people are sometimes described as Deists. They carefully created the USA to have no religion attached to the government at all. Not Christian or anything else.
So instead of getting scared of the idea that Christians are going to impose the Christian Sharia Law in USA, the Atheists should be thankful to Christians, because it’s the Christians who gave you this country to live freely to begin with. And it’s the same Christians who gave you the right of free speech, under which, the unthankful Atheists now demean and attack Christianity.
No, it is people who argued for free speech, despite their Christianity. The fact that they were Christians is irrelevant if they allowed free speech because it is the right thing to do, and not because of their religion. Or shall we point out the pagan origins of democracy?
And remember, those people who fought for free speech and the separation of church and state did so because they knew the dangers of having a Christian theocracy.
But yes, you attack those unthankful atheists for saying it is wrong to demean and attack homosexuals on religious grounds.
You attack those unthankful atheists fighting for separation of church and state because there are groups who want to set up a theocracy in the US. Because it will effect you too.
You attack those unthankful atheists who have to hide the fact that they are atheists in the US because certain Christian groups thinks free speech only applies to them.
Do atheists in the US have a reason to be thankful? I doubt it.
And stop with the drama. It is not our fault you have for people who are not Christians strange beliefs that you use to attack others. And US atheists have the right of free speech to tell you why you are wrong (sorry, I meant demean and attack Christianity ).
Last edited by Harry Diogenes; 02-06-2019 at 09:54 AM..
In post # 252, I suggested that the founding fathers of America (including those who wrote the constitution) were predominantly Christians.
And if they wanted to impose a “Christian Sharia law” (that TRNASPONDER is verg scared of), there would be hardly anyone stopping them. But they didn’t.
So if Christian Sharia Law was not imposed at that time, then it’s very unlikely that it would be imposed now.
So instead of getting scared of the idea that Christians are going to impose the Christian Sharia Law in USA, the Atheists should be thankful to Christians, because it’s the Christians who gave you this country to live freely to begin with. And it’s the same Christians who gave you the right of free speech, under which, the unthankful Atheists now demean and attack Christianity.
I'm glad that the Founding Fathers were more open-minded than most of the christians who regularly post here.
But make no mistake, the did what they did in spite of their religious beliefs, not because of them. To an extent, they were able to separate their religion from their politics.
However, before you go on discussing how wise they were, slavery and many of the issues that go before the Supreme Court are based on poor decisions by those men who wrote the constitution. As much as I admire some of them personally, I sometimes refer to them as the Floundering Fathers.
I'm glad that the Founding Fathers were more open-minded than most of the christians who regularly post here.
But make no mistake, the did what they did in spite of their religious beliefs, not because of them. To an extent, they were able to separate their religion from their politics.
However, before you go on discussing how wise they were, slavery and many of the issues that go before the Supreme Court are based on poor decisions by those men who wrote the constitution. As much as I admire some of them personally, I sometimes refer to them as the Floundering Fathers.
But those who rose up against slavery and finally managed to put an end to it, were also predominantly Christians (Deists), no?
But those who rose up against slavery and finally managed to put an end to it, were also predominantly Christians (Deists), no?
Maybe so; maybe not. However, it indisputable that support for the institution of slavery caused the Southern Baptists to separate from the Northern Baptists.
From the Encyclopedia Britannica:
"Southern Baptist Convention, largest Baptist group in the United States, organized at Augusta, Georgia, in 1845 by Southern Baptists who disagreed with the antislavery attitudes and activities of Northern Baptists."
But those who rose up against slavery and finally managed to put an end to it, were also predominantly Christians (Deists), no?
Oh. Great on the christians. Since not all of them favored slavery...just those christians who lived south of Maryland. Let's give them an NAACP award.
So those who colonized the country were brushed aside by a few unknown people, and that little group of known people (presumably, Atheists) were powerful enough to write the constitution?
Surprising thought it seems to me, that seems to be what happened. In a new country of people who were generally religious, people who were not as much as those who were, wrote a constitution designed to give religion no control over it. In practice now, everyone who wants to get into government has to exhibit their religious credentials. But the intent of the Constitution remains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Are you suggesting that James Madison, Ben Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, and George Washington were Atheists? Certainly, several of the prominent politicians of the day left writings behind that left specifics about their religious beliefs in question, several of them might best be classified as Deists, but none of these people left any evidence that they did not believe in God. It is certainly possible that some were Atheists. Nobody in 17th Century Philadelphia would have admitted it if it had been so, but it is possible that a few of them actually did not Believe and knew better than to ever say so.
A number of the men at the Constitutional Convention were Freemasons, including Washington, Franklin, and Madison. Joining the Freemasons requires that a man be willing to state that he has a belief in a Supreme Being, thus eliminating Atheists from membership.
Who are these Atheists that you think wrote the Constitution?
In the pre - Darwin days, Deism was the nearest to atheism you got, generally. But the point of the Constitution is not to sideline Theism, but to sideline the Church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
But those who rose up against slavery and finally managed to put an end to it, were also predominantly Christians (Deists), no?
Most Americans always have been. Atheism has hardly been seen 'till recent years. But they came out against slavery because they saw it as right, not because Christianity said it was wrong. Remember, the people who did the slave -trade were Christian, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
In post # 252, I suggested that the founding fathers of America (including those who wrote the constitution) were predominantly Christians.
And if they wanted to impose a “Christian Sharia law” (that TRNASPONDER is verg scared of), there would be hardly anyone stopping them. But they didn’t.
So if Christian Sharia Law was not imposed at that time, then it’s very unlikely that it would be imposed now.
So instead of getting scared of the idea that Christians are going to impose the Christian Sharia Law in USA, the Atheists should be thankful to Christians, because it’s the Christians who gave you this country to live freely to begin with. And it’s the same Christians who gave you the right of free speech, under which, the unthankful Atheists now demean and attack Christianity.
No; I thank humanism. People saw what was right and fair and pushed for it, and though they were Christian, human notions of right and freedom what what got us what we have. Fought against, I would suggest, by Christianity. Just as it is doing now.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-06-2019 at 03:50 PM..
Why did I have a sudden vision of children playing in a sandbox.
it comes to mind when there are squeals of "All these toys are mine! You can't have any of them. I'm going to scream till I puke if you even have one. Iit's the way I want because I say so. If you don't like it, go home.."
Sandbox.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-06-2019 at 03:52 PM..
Philosophy can tell us nothing about the basics of how the world works or the nature of reality. It can speculate as much as it likes, but it is mere speculation until science conforms it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
This is something I fear you simply cannot grasp, Arq. Science can tell us HOW reality operates but it can NOT tell us WHAT it IS (the fundamental nature of it) or WHY. Philosophy is the interpretive discipline that uses what science discovers to try to answer those questions.
Well said, Mystic. And particularly when it comes to questions of "What should I believe?" (even if we don't mean a moral "should" because if we do then science is impotent), we know that science cannot function without certain philosophical assumptions about reality and what we (or indeed if there even is a "we" but never mind) can learn about it. And asking the important questions in regards to what science is "teaching" us is philosophy, hence fields like Philosophy of Science et al. These are not to be thought of for a second as polar opposites or even different methods for getting at truth. At most, these are disciplines that arrive at different truths which do not conflict but complement one another.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
).
