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Yes, questioning the quasi-religion of scientism does make atheism harder to sell.
We need to stop religion for practical reasons? What does that mean? What if theism, or some particular religion, or some combination of religions, are actually true? What if there actually is a God who is personally involved in the world and has expectations for his creatures? What if prayer actually works?
What could be more practical than attempting to understand the nature of ultimate reality and the way our world relates to it?
I always have a difficult time grasping the atheist vision. What would a purely atheistic world look like except human nature running amuck and a bunch of secular ideologies competing with each other, pretty much exactly as religions now do but without the restraining influence of religion?
What if I were to say "Think how great it would be if we could eliminate atheism and all other religions in favor of Christianity. Everyone would just love God and his neighbor as himself." What could be better than that? What could be more practical than that?
Atheists (and many others) would squawk, quite reasonably, "We're never going to go along with that because we don't think Christianity is TRUE!"
And so, I'm not silly enough to say anything like that even though it may be my fondest fantasy. But atheists say things like that all the time, as though atheism were self-evidently true. But it isn't self-evidently true, either in philosophical or scientific terms or in the hearts and minds of the vast majority of people who have ever lived.
Thanks to you too and with all due respect, your perspective is the sort that is very interesting to me in the context of these truths I put together. I'd encourage you to address each one, one after the other, to let me know where - exactly -- we agree and/or don't agree. Also with all due respect, I really have to say I understand your perspective far better than you do mine. Far better than you understand atheists like me in any case.
That's a problem that first and foremost needs to be corrected before much better understanding between people like us can be had. Atheism is not something I would call a "sell" for starters. Would be worth the effort I think, but then again I know how this sort of exchange goes as a rule...
Sure, no problem. I'll respond.
How would I reshape my life if something happens in the world that proves without any doubt that God does not exist?
I feel very confident that Christianity is our reality, so if Christianity was proved to be untrue it would definitely be a shocker to me. I don't know how long the shock would last but it would take some time for me to acclimate to a different view of reality.
I would probably manage another paradigm shift reasonably well, though, since it was only a few years ago that I became a Christian and I have fresh memories about how impacting that was to my thinking at the time and for a long time after. It also had negative impacts on some relationships with people who knew me for decades when I was an agnostic. It wasn't easy, but having already gone through that somewhat recently I think I would manage. My goal has always been the clearest view of reality that I can have. If another worldview was able to provide a clearer view of reality I would adopt it.
As you struggled to "acclimate to a different view of reality," I would remind you that our universal reality has always been the same and always will be. The same for all of us. It's only correcting your view that you would be acclimating to. Your effort would be to acclimate to the truth as somehow established by way of supporting facts and evidence rather than the lack of supporting facts and evidence. That WOULD be something!
Then I think you would find that all we can enjoy and appreciate about our time here on Earth is no less meaningful, rich and worthwhile without needing to believe in a god.
And what I bolded gets into ethics, which exist with or without religion.
True, but I'm not sure where that leaves us or whether that leaves us any better off, because ethics is also a very subjective matter. As evidenced by the raging political debates forever going on around us since politics became a thing...
True, but I'm not sure where that leaves us or whether that leaves us any better off, because ethics is also a very subjective matter. As evidenced by the raging political debates forever going on around us since politics became a thing...
If we can't talk ethics, we can't get anywhere, and ethics isn't supposed to be easy. Most of life is subjective.
Not sure what you mean or have in mind, but by all means talk away!
Also not sure if my Ten Truths can be considered my way of suggesting a way forward even ethically speaking, but I like to think so...
Whatever you have got to add or supplement or whatever, I'm curious to learn. Thanks!
What I'm saying is that your Ten Truths is more a framework of how to approach ethics. For example, considering what's going on in this country right now, how to we go from such a framework of ethnics to actually solving the issues?
What I'm saying is that your Ten Truths is more a framework of how to approach ethics. For example, considering what's going on in this country right now, how to we go from such a framework of ethnics to actually solving the issues?
Perhaps for when I have more time tomorrow, but needing to sign off now for today...
Again, have you got something more specifically in mind or just asking?
so you are telling me that finding out a guy didn't die and rise for our sins and didn't actually raise a man from the dead literally, you would be shocked?
Yes, it would be a paradigm shift for anyone to suddenly change their worldview from one that includes a loving Creator to a meaningless worldview of pitiless indifference.
Yes, it would be a paradigm shift for anyone to suddenly change their worldview from one that includes a loving Creator to a meaningless worldview of pitiless indifference.
You couldn't be more wrong in thinking that atheism is a worldview of "pitiless indifference".
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