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Old 07-13-2008, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,292,958 times
Reputation: 11416

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetiedarling View Post
Josephus is not a forgery - it is a recognised as genuine by theologians and academics worldwide.
Chielgirl - When I said 'how do we know right from wrong' - I meant human beings generally and not just Christians - generally human beings know the difference between right and wrong because we (whether Chrisian or not) have a conscience. My point is - where does our conscience come from? How do we know that one thing is right and another is wrong? Belief in God is faith i.e. it is not detectable by our five senses hence the term 'faith' - but it is not blind faith - there are 'proofs' in nature - the order and the beauty of nature is incredible, in fact how we human beings are made is incredible - it is difficult to say that there is no designer. Why not quote the Bible? It is God's thoughts and Word so it would be the obvious place to look for Him. I am not at all arrogant - I am no better than a non-Christian - I just happen to believe, but I have the same failings as anyone else - the difference is that God helps me in my weaknesses. God Himself has no favourites - he is impartial - no one is better than anyone else - he has just made it that faith is the way that we can know Him. The real proof is personal experience - ask Him to show himself to you - if you really mean it you will find that He will answer you and then you will have your proof.
God bless you.
I learned from my family and society. I don't need a fairy tale to live my life to the fullest.
Since there is no god, I don't need to bother with your lack of proof.
Good for you and your relationship with your god-thing. I don't want anything to do with your god-thing.
Please don't push it on me, you'll only alienate and reaffirm that xians are disingenuous, judging, sanctimonious and rude.
Your "god-thing bless you" is an absolute rudeness. I request that you don't push your religion on me. How would you feel if I ended my comments to you with a Satan bless and keep you. Same rudeness, now isn't it.
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Old 07-13-2008, 09:49 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,449,435 times
Reputation: 55563
can't do it. its all speculation. just like folks tellin me how lucky i am over and over and over. they don't have an explanation either, just keep sayin im lucky.
i dont call it luck. cuz before i was started really practicing my religion i had nothin but bad luck. see i dont believe in luck at all. so that is my best shot.
prove the bible? wow. i mean prove that promiscuous sex, hatred, cheating, drugs alcohol and violence are bad for you?
how much proof do you need?
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:35 AM
 
4 posts, read 7,503 times
Reputation: 11
The difference is that God WILL definitely reveal Himself if you ask Him to - it is a promise. There is no doubt or question about it because He IS real. To say that 'if God doesn't' is not an option because He will if you are genuine. The Santa Clause thing - grown ups do not have personal experience of Santa - this is on a different level entirely. We all know (apart from small children) that Santa is not real.
How do you know that our conscience doesn't require an ultimate source? Quite a statement - but is it factual? Biological evolution - - yes there is evolution to a point - but where did it all begin?
The very fact that I call myself a Christian is because of the truth - [pretence if out of the question]. If I were pretending my whole life would be a mockery - why would I bother? I have looked into these things for years and years and am certainly not ignorant - there are many arguments about God but one cannot argue with personal experience which is not manufactured. If anyone wants to know the truth then he/she will find it.
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Old 07-19-2008, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,292,958 times
Reputation: 11416
That's not proof, sweetiedarling. It's your opinion based on conjecture.

Proof, not "because I think it is" arguments.
Nice try, but I'm not buying it.
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:16 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,973,476 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
That's not proof, sweetiedarling. It's your opinion based on conjecture.

Proof, not "because I think it is" arguments.
Nice try, but I'm not buying it.
The proof for God's existance is in the fulfilled prophecies found in the Bible. They are far to detailed for all of that to of happened by accident, and many of those prophecies are happening today so you can't just say that long ago they filled in the blank. I really don't think you came here looking for proof. I think you came here trying to escape the idea of God, and His commandments. Your not that special, many like you have done the same thing. The Bible tells us most people would rather live their life for themselves, then ever live their life for God.
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:25 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,237,991 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by chielgirl
Quote:
Proof, not "because I think it is" arguments.
Nice try, but I'm not buying it.
Would you buy love?
Or to say it in other words: Do you believe in love?
Is loving someone not the same as putting your faith in that person (especially when it is against your better judgement)?
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,292,958 times
Reputation: 11416
Yes, it is putting your faith in something. But that is not proof that "love" exists.

Last edited by chielgirl; 07-19-2008 at 06:56 AM..
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:26 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,237,991 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by chielgirl
Quote:
Would I buy love? Probably not, I'm a woman and don't need to do so.
No self-respecting hippie would buy love, but they would certainly dig it.
Free love and all.

So everyone who has experienced love, has experienced God.
If you can prove love, you also have proven that God exists.
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
3,412 posts, read 10,173,290 times
Reputation: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetiedarling View Post
How do you know that our conscience doesn't require an ultimate source?
What is conscience? A hypothesized ability or faculty that distinguishes whether our actions are right or wrong.

Do you think that maybe everything we do based on instincts, and knowledge that every action has a reaction, because it is what it is?
Then, may be all the living creatures on this earth believe in their gods and have souls, because they know how to take care of themselves, their offsprings, how to hunt and survive on levels that they know and did for many years.

These are basic instinct that we live by, there is nothing godly about it. We do what we do because for everything we do or don't we'll be subjected to consequences of our deeds, physically, not morally.

Morality is another question, morality is not a conscience. What moral to one, is going to be immoral to others. That's a whole different ball game.
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:16 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,568 posts, read 16,237,991 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by ShepsMom
Quote:
Do you think that maybe everything we do based on instincts, and knowledge that every action has a reaction, because it is what it is?
Whether it is based on instinct or knowledge, it is a simple fact that every action has a reaction.
And that your actions are a direct result of whatever it is you believe.
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