Does faith mean no spiritual experience? (Abraham, religions, Creator, Universe)
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I'm asking if you believe God exists, is it because a) you experienced something spiritual that confirmed God's existence for you, or b) whether you don't really know God exists but maintain some faith that he does.
My answer is yes.
Your error is that you restricted the choice to those two cases.
Believing that God exists is not the deciding factor. Obeying the Gospel is the deciding factor.
Not sure why God would require such an exercise, but either way it's hard to pray to something I don't believe is there. I prayed for many years while believing God was there hearing my every word. Feeling it in my heart. Accordingly you might say I have taken your experiment and know the experience, but as the years continued I began to consider what was really going on, and in particular how there really wasn't much in the way of reply from God. What I was feeling in my heart was there for reasons having nothing to do with a god far as I came to realize. Pretty hard for me to undue that recognition now in any case.
I'm no scientist, but now I require a bit more in the way of proof, well beyond the personal experience of others and their say so. If there is a God, I see no reason why there can be no proof that goes beyond personal say so. Most of us require proof when it comes to believing much of what other people tell us. This is no different. No different than if you told me you are in contact with your deceased relatives, and I can be too if I really try...
Exactly. Those who preach Feeling God in your head (they often say 'heart' but mean 'mind') think that we 'simply don't know...' and if only we had this Experience...we'd all become god -believers, are a few pixels short of a complete picture.
They don't understand that half of us (metaphorically -speaking) have had this experience and have come to realise that it was their own mind speaking to itself, which is what I do all he time.They confirm what I (as a lifetime) thought it was all along.
So they simply don't know that we know what they know and we know that it isn't what they think they know, you know.
Time for an Arq axiom 'a conjuring trick, once explained, won't fool the audience again'.
The Theists are like a stage magician doing the same trick and saying 'Look - you can't deny that magic is real!' and wondering why we laugh. If they make it clear that they believe it's really magic themselves, we just laugh even louder, and when the audience explains back to them how the trick is done they deny it and insist it's magic, we hurt ourselves laughing.
They don't understand that half of us (metaphorically -speaking) have had this experience and have come to realise that it was their own mind speaking to itself, which is what I do all he time. They confirm what I (as a lifetime) thought it was all along.
So they simply don't know that we know what they know and we know that it isn't what they think they know, you know.
...
I think they do understand that, and that their response is that, "You weren't a real christian" (said one way or another).
Exactly. Those who preach Feeling God in your head (they often say 'heart' but mean 'mind') think that we 'simply don't know...' and if only we had this Experience...we'd all become god -believers, are a few pixels short of a complete picture.
What OTHER way do you imagine there is to experience anything if not in our mind, Arq???? You keep saying this as if it makes some sense to you, but it makes none to me whatsoever. There is no OTHER WAY to experience anything.
I’m sorry for your bad experience. What I know from God and praying is that He is limited in answering material prayers. But He isn’t limited in answering prayers of the soul to receive His Divine Love, which is delivered by His Holy Spirit (the active energy of His soul). Just know that God isn’t a man sitting on a throne judging us from Heaven. He is Soul with a form like a gigantic ball of energy.
Bad experience?
I don't consider my experience a bad one. I think it's been a pretty good one in fact...
I don't want to accuse you of lying, but that is not true. I don't know how you missed the many times that I have said I use the exact same evidence you do since neither of us can claim to know what it is evidence OF. That is something you refuse to take on board as part of your tenacious belief in your atheist default. There is nothing in science that can determine what science is discovering evidence OF, conventional labels notwithstanding, but the status of it relative to us is that of God, period.
The utter ignorance of your subjective beliefs about Reality and what it IS, does not mean you do not HAVE personal beliefs based on your personal say so that are unwarranted. ALL the objective evidence available to us is EQUALLY attributable to God as to any of the labels you use and there is no OBJECTIVE scientific way to distinguish between them, period!
Good because I'm not a liar. I'm lots of things but not a liar...
I won't dig up the comments you have posted about how you came to know God as a result of a deep, personal, meditative experience that you can't prove to be what you thought it to be to anyone else, but okay. I can see how that doesn't mean you didn't go onto find what you believe is further proof that God exists. Just seems no one recognizes the proof or evidence you find worthy in this regard the same way you do.
We've really got no need to keep repeating these simple truths...
Your error is that you restricted the choice to those two cases.
Believing that God exists is not the deciding factor. Obeying the Gospel is the deciding factor.
I'm not asking what is the deciding factor...
I'm asking whether someone who knows God exists needs to have faith that God exists, because as I understand these terms (per dictionary definitions), you don't need faith something exists if you know something exists. If you're not sure, then one might need to rely on faith. All I'm asking is which is it far as you and others are concerned?
What OTHER way do you imagine there is to experience anything if not in our mind, Arq???? You keep saying this as if it makes some sense to you, but it makes none to me whatsoever. There is no OTHER WAY to experience anything.
Oh my again...
I'm at a loss how to address this sort of reasoning, or maybe it's me. Wait! We can't experience anything without our mind! Of course. What other way is there to experience anything?
Thank you! It's all so clear to me now. Don't know how I missed this simple objective truth all this time...
Oh my again...
I'm at a loss how to address this sort of reasoning, or maybe it's me. Wait! We can't experience anything without our mind! Of course. What other way is there to experience anything?
Thank you! It's all so clear to me now. Don't know how I missed this simple objective truth all this time...
Please enlighten me with your "learnedness," LearnMe. What conceivable way is there for you to experience anything that is NOT processed by and interpreted by your consciousness???? I am all eyes!
Makes sense, but I too have chosen a path born of the guidance my learning about life has provided for me." An ongoing learning. One I can also say helps me to live "a peacefully and morally cautious life." (Among other things). I can't really call that a religion, because my guidance that also makes the most sense to me is not based upon or reliant on any religion. I'm an atheist, and quite honestly it is not much different for me to read yours is "guidance by God" as it is for you to hear people say "God talks to me."
More back to the point or question or topic of this thread. Would you say you KNOW God exists (based on personal experience) or that you have faith God exists? Again I'm inclined to believe that if/when someone actually KNOWS God exists (based on personal experience), there is no need for faith. They need not claim faith in God. They know.
No, we don't really "KNOW" if God exists or not.
And this is the biggest question for humanity. What's after death?
And the answer is, NO ONE actually "knows".
Being an Atheist, do you "KNOW" that God, does "NOT" exist?
No you don't. You also have FAITH to believe that God does NOT exist.
Nobody has died and came back to life to let us know that he has seen God and hell and heaven, OR if they died and came back to life, and they saw nothing but a "void" after death, which is not possible either because to be able to experience the "void", you've gotta have consciousness and ability to perceive, up and running.
So we all actually have FAITH when it comes to attempting to answer the question, "what's after death"?
Some folks put their bets on the existence of God who they may meet after death, and there is probably a hell and a heaven, (all different kinds of religions), and some folks have a faith that there is no God, and it's going to be a void or a transition to another universe or whatever (all different flavors of Atheism), and some people are not bothered by this question (Agnostics).
Each to it's own.
So for those who choose to believe, may get into a secondary question. "Could their actions (good or bad) may have an effect on what's after death?
So if a believer thinks that his living a morally cautious and peaceful life is not only beneficial for humanity but it may also have an after life effect? then good for him. I don't see an issue with it.
And if a believer tries to avoid what's harmful to others thinking that not only it's beneficial towards the society and humanity but it also may have an effect on his after life, then good for him. No problem either.
Atheists who believe that there is a void after death, how would they know if they were right after they die?
What do you think?
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'a conjuring trick, once explained, won't fool the audience again'.
I long to see a picture...
