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If you have to believe, have faith, accept the untangible that something exists, without any proof from the other side, God...then you're saying for those who believe, God exists, for those who won't pretend, there is no god. There cannot be 2 realities.
Perhaps if there is a God or Gods, it is up to him (them) to reveal himself, not for us to find him. Obviously no one has been able to find him. The ones who claim they get warm feelings, odd thoughts, see God in babies' faces, feel God's presence in nature, point to the rare medical miracle...these are not revelations of any god. The atheist sees those things as good things too, but we don't say that is a being.
We all know what we are talking about here, and there is so much "beating around the bush." I am tired of hearing about how something nice happened for someone, etc., and then they "found God." If there was a God, I find it odd he hasn't revealed himself to me, since I truly sought for many years, and if you want to doubt my sincerity, you can come over to my home and see the boxes of books in my garage on theology, religions, and philosophy. I've read everyone from CS Lewis to Joseph Campbell and not one of these guys knows more than you or me about any god.
No God ever helped me when I truly needed it. I declined from asking for a new BMW or anything material like many pray for. It wasn't about materialistic gain for me, but truth seeking.
I am tired of people telling me that Jesus talks to them in their hearts. A heart isn't an auditory organ, and atheists get heavy or light heartedness too, over emotional things. When my dad died, my heart ached and I had that heavy chest over it.
Maybe I qualify as an agnostic, because if a God revealed himself to me, I would acknowledge it, contrary to what many write. "You wouldn't believe it anyway if God himself came down and showed himself." Naw...trust me, the supernatural would scare the heck out of me and make me a believer, because I don't believe in it now.
There are so many things wrong in my life. I have tried to be a good person and all I get is crap. I feel I am struggling way too hard, and I have way too much stress. You know, when I was a Christian, I prayed over this, and got nothing. Christians I knew said God :
a) wasn't ready to answer me. (Not ready??? Are they serious? Is he making me wait to just twist in the wind? Patience? We all have creditors, bills to pay, other people and things waiting on us, so if we seem impatient, we can't go to others and tell them to just be patient!
b) God said no. ( I didn't hear a "no", and no answer is not a no.)Just check NO in the box.
c) God answered me but I didn't listen. (I didn't hear anything. I make sure others hear me when I answer them, so I don't blame them if I make myself inaudible). So what is it, is God being obtuse?
d) God isn't a wish Genie. "Ask and ye shall receive"...why not, why not ask someone who supposedly loves you for real help? Why shouldn't you ask God for help when you need it? No...not the new minivan, but the job, the ability to be able to learn your job so you're not fired, health issues, etc.
e) God won't give me what I want because it's not in his Will. (Well gee, then he wants me to suffer, so why pray? Is his Will for me to suffer? Other people have suffered, and some far more than I am, or ever will. He didn't help them, so why would he help me?
We can't find this god, so why won't he find us. Faith is like styrofoam, good for packing, but lacks real substance. You could have faith in just about anything, but does it make it real? And why would it be important to this God to hide and be unseen, and have us believe he is really there? Why not just come out from behind the curtain? Are you believers too afraid to really find out if he is there or not?
Why would I worship a God like this, who won't reveal himself or help me? OH yeah, I ask for bad things, I'm a bad person, etc., etc. Well, I try to be a person of intergrity, I don't gossip or cut my coworkers, I try to be a good parent, I try to do the honest or right thing because that's the way I want to feel about myself inside. Yeah, it's called Congruency.
So I am agnostic, with very strong atheistic leanings, and not one of you can prove God to me, not with your Bible or Koran verses.
Not with your stories about seeing Jesus in candy bars or your uncle who was resusitated.
My ambivalence has grown into a hate for this god, because I suspect if there is a god, there is some sadistic leanings in his will for us to suffer. That's the scariest part, perhaps this God is not all good, if he exists. But then, back to square one, does he exist??
How about Vanessi's Grass Blade showing how complex a wonder of creation you have found, and then you truly have revealed "God" to your heart. Then in comparison the sordid consciousness of humans appears to have so much to believe in and about. Of course, that shouldn't any longer represent a createdness as so much in our lives we create ourselves for responsible participation. So we find we can't trust God to fulfill our needs for the life we wished for. It must be done by the spirit of self-deception, or we just do what we were told to.
And then Vanessi's grass blade really fails to prove anything. It was the ordinary worth of worldly nature connecting the philosophical thinking to the spiritual perfection of free intelligence. It was more intalligent than a rock, less intelligent than a rat.
And why would it be important to this God to hide and be unseen, and have us believe he is really there? Why not just come out from behind the curtain? Are you believers too afraid to really find out if he is there or not?
Exactly. What sort of loving parent would impose that scenario upon their children?
He has revealed Himself to us in the Bible. If that's not good enough, then consider this: He is so holy that for us as sinners, if we were to look upon Him, we would die because of our unholiness.
Sorry if that doesn't cover it but that's the way it is. I didn't write it, I didn't set the rules. If you have a problem with it, you need to go to God about it and ask Him. I haven't seen Him but I know He is there. I don't have to see Him in order to believe, I just do.
If you have to believe, have faith, accept the untangible that something exists, without any proof from the other side, God...then you're saying for those who believe, God exists, for those who won't pretend, there is no god. There cannot be 2 realities.
Perhaps if there is a God or Gods, it is up to him (them) to reveal himself, not for us to find him. Obviously no one has been able to find him. The ones who claim they get warm feelings, odd thoughts, see God in babies' faces, feel God's presence in nature, point to the rare medical miracle...these are not revelations of any god. The atheist sees those things as good things too, but we don't say that is a being.
We all know what we are talking about here, and there is so much "beating around the bush." I am tired of hearing about how something nice happened for someone, etc., and then they "found God." If there was a God, I find it odd he hasn't revealed himself to me, since I truly sought for many years, and if you want to doubt my sincerity, you can come over to my home and see the boxes of books in my garage on theology, religions, and philosophy. I've read everyone from CS Lewis to Joseph Campbell and not one of these guys knows more than you or me about any god.
No God ever helped me when I truly needed it. I declined from asking for a new BMW or anything material like many pray for. It wasn't about materialistic gain for me, but truth seeking.
I am tired of people telling me that Jesus talks to them in their hearts. A heart isn't an auditory organ, and atheists get heavy or light heartedness too, over emotional things. When my dad died, my heart ached and I had that heavy chest over it.
Maybe I qualify as an agnostic, because if a God revealed himself to me, I would acknowledge it, contrary to what many write. "You wouldn't believe it anyway if God himself came down and showed himself." Naw...trust me, the supernatural would scare the heck out of me and make me a believer, because I don't believe in it now.
There are so many things wrong in my life. I have tried to be a good person and all I get is crap. I feel I am struggling way too hard, and I have way too much stress. You know, when I was a Christian, I prayed over this, and got nothing. Christians I knew said God :
a) wasn't ready to answer me. (Not ready??? Are they serious? Is he making me wait to just twist in the wind? Patience? We all have creditors, bills to pay, other people and things waiting on us, so if we seem impatient, we can't go to others and tell them to just be patient!
b) God said no. ( I didn't hear a "no", and no answer is not a no.)Just check NO in the box.
c) God answered me but I didn't listen. (I didn't hear anything. I make sure others hear me when I answer them, so I don't blame them if I make myself inaudible). So what is it, is God being obtuse?
d) God isn't a wish Genie. "Ask and ye shall receive"...why not, why not ask someone who supposedly loves you for real help? Why shouldn't you ask God for help when you need it? No...not the new minivan, but the job, the ability to be able to learn your job so you're not fired, health issues, etc.
e) God won't give me what I want because it's not in his Will. (Well gee, then he wants me to suffer, so why pray? Is his Will for me to suffer? Other people have suffered, and some far more than I am, or ever will. He didn't help them, so why would he help me?
We can't find this god, so why won't he find us. Faith is like styrofoam, good for packing, but lacks real substance. You could have faith in just about anything, but does it make it real? And why would it be important to this God to hide and be unseen, and have us believe he is really there? Why not just come out from behind the curtain? Are you believers too afraid to really find out if he is there or not?
Why would I worship a God like this, who won't reveal himself or help me? OH yeah, I ask for bad things, I'm a bad person, etc., etc. Well, I try to be a person of intergrity, I don't gossip or cut my coworkers, I try to be a good parent, I try to do the honest or right thing because that's the way I want to feel about myself inside. Yeah, it's called Congruency.
So I am agnostic, with very strong atheistic leanings, and not one of you can prove God to me, not with your Bible or Koran verses.
Not with your stories about seeing Jesus in candy bars or your uncle who was resusitated.
My ambivalence has grown into a hate for this god, because I suspect if there is a god, there is some sadistic leanings in his will for us to suffer. That's the scariest part, perhaps this God is not all good, if he exists. But then, back to square one, does he exist??
My pet rat would make a better god.
God will reveal Himself to anyone who seeks Him. He did that with me. The God of the Bible tells us that if you seek Him with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your soul you will surly find Him. You could not be more wrong about God if you tried. Your hate is impairing your judgment. The Bible proves itself. You can see Gods signature in the fulfillment of His prophecies. I don't believe in blind faith, I believe in a living God that has proven Himself to me many times. I have a lifetime of experiences with Him, and He is the best friend I have ever had.
Actually, I don't see nebulous as being hateful. After reading more of her posts online, I've seen a genuine sincerity in her posts. I think she is seeking after the Truth. She pours her heart out in her posts so I highly doubt she's done less than that with God. I think she's doing the very best she knows how.
Honestly, nebulous, I think you're on the right trail here. If the experience of coming to know God and having that complete assurance and peace could be explained in words, I'd stop everything and write it all out for you.
An honest answer is that I don't know why God isn't showing Himself to you in a way that you can accept. I personally apologize wholeheartedly for ever doubting your sincerity earlier. I jumped the gun on that and I was wrong. I'm very sorry.
The only thing I can say is that God is a God of His word and is a rewarder of those who seek Him with their whole heart. I also know that He can't be found in any other religion. I know people call that arrogant, but if they truly understood why, they would see why. Instead they try to see it from their own understanding, which doesn't work.
Proverbs 3:4-6
And so find favor and high esteem
In the sight of God and man.
Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.
He has revealed Himself to us in the Bible. If that's not good enough, then consider this: He is so holy that for us as sinners, if we were to look upon Him, we would die because of our unholiness.
Sorry if that doesn't cover it but that's the way it is. I didn't write it, I didn't set the rules. If you have a problem with it, you need to go to God about it and ask Him. I haven't seen Him but I know He is there. I don't have to see Him in order to believe, I just do.
Great post and I agree. I think God also reveals Himself in others ways like circumstances, people, nature and post like yours.
Nebulous1, I know you're tired of trying to find God, but I really think if you watch the video in this thread - "The Bible is God's Word? PROVE IT!" - that you might find some of the answers you're looking for.
Simple living your link led me to this nugget of wisdom....Do you actually believe this?
The Prophesied End-Time
The end-time has come. Hundreds of millions will die in the worst time of tribulation the world has ever known. You need to be informed so you can know how to respond.
The Prophesied End-Time will challenge readers as they consider catastrophic end-time events that are prophesied to begin very soon. Although many will not take seriously what is written here, they will gradually experience disbelief as the events covered in this book begin to unfold.
These events will begin with more acts of terrorism, along with natural disasters, that will far exceed the devastation of 9/11. The magnitude of these events will lead to the demise of the United States and the United Kingdom, which will lead to World War III.
The Flying Sphaghetti Monster has revealed himself to me.
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