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equating the reliable belief the event didn't happen literally as a win for the equally less reliable deny everything for the good of atheism's cause is political more than honesty.
believing in some thing more is just more reliable. I mean, just walk outside.
That said, have you never heard of a kid getting molested or abused in a youth soccer league? Boys Scouts? Anything else? People do bad things. Even among atheists, some are bad. Scumbags hurt kids. Doesn't mean that the entire organization is to blame.
No it doesn't mean the whole organization is to blame but the thing I critique is whether the organization roots out that kind of perfidy or conceals, excuses and even rewards it. The Catholic church has a pretty consistent pattern of simply transferring boy-diddling priests or bishops to different postings with little to no sanctions for their actions. And that is complicity beyond what they strictly would have borne if they had simply acknowledged these things and did their best to make them right AND correct the systemic issues that gave rise to them.
In the particular case of the Catholics (who by no means are the only ones with problems, just the best known), they are unable to address the systemic issues because of the straightjacket of church tradition, because in my view, much of the problem comes from the requirement of celibacy for priests. It creates a perfect storm of denial and repression of sexuality, attraction of people running from their sexual impulses, and then excusing and concealing the problem's manifestations to save face.
The question you're probably more interested in debating is whether religion is particularly prone to this kind of thing. I tend to think probably yes, but don't have (or at least am unaware of) empirical data to support that, so I don't make that claim, other than voicing a personal suspicion. You are correct that in a sense a youth pastor (for example) has no more access to potential victims than a high school teacher. It is a more subjective conversation whether some hypothetical youth pastor would have more rationalizations at his or her disposal because of the general thought landscape provided by religious beliefs, dogmas, etc. Or whether they would be more driven to being bad actors due to a more self-loathing and conflicted stance toward sexuality. I frankly don't know the answer to that, but know only that when I had kids in school I would have worried about them more in a religious setting than a secular one on that particular score.
I'm not Catholic. I can't and won't speak for them. Please realize that there are actually different denominations and different organizations within Christianity.
That said, have you never heard of a kid getting molested or abused in a youth soccer league? Boys Scouts? Anything else? People do bad things. Even among atheists, some are bad. Scumbags hurt kids. Doesn't mean that the entire organization is to blame.
1. It is a problem for the 'entire organization' when the organization is involved in covering it up.
2. If anyone ought to set the example for morality, it ought to be religious leaders.
I'm not Catholic. I can't and won't speak for them. Please realize that there are actually different denominations and different organizations within Christianity.
That said, have you never heard of a kid getting molested or abused in a youth soccer league? Boys Scouts? Anything else? People do bad things. Even among atheists, some are bad. Scumbags hurt kids. Doesn't mean that the entire organization is to blame.
Is there an institutional cover up scheme with other organizations? Don't forget, religious organizations portray themselves as the height of morality, don't they. You know, that "objective " thingy all y'all keep babbling about.
Is there an institutional cover up scheme with other organizations? Don't forget, religious organizations portray themselves as the height of morality, don't they. You know, that "objective " thingy all y'all keep babbling about.
It isn't just there has been a rather consistent coverup, it's also that in so many, many cases that have come to light there were no consequences.
1. It is a problem for the 'entire organization' when the organization is involved in covering it up.
2. If anyone ought to set the example for morality, it ought to be religious leaders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad
Is there an institutional cover up scheme with other organizations? Don't forget, religious organizations portray themselves as the height of morality, don't they. You know, that "objective " thingy all y'all keep babbling about.
This ^^^^ is not true.
The most common Religions teach that people are intrinsically flawed and "sinful"...even born that way.
That everyone needs to repent and be redeemed. That they are not even capable of redeeming themselves...and if they receive it, it was "undeserved", etc, etc
In fact...it is a base premise of the ideology.
Any "objective morality" comes from God...and NONE will meet standards. THAT is the "thingy" they tell of.
Name the other organization that declares all the people in it to not only be "bad", but incapable of being redeemed by themselves or anybody else?
The most common Religions teach that people are intrinsically flawed and "sinful"...even born that way.
That everyone needs to repent and be redeemed. That they are not even capable of redeeming themselves...and if they receive it, it was "undeserved", etc, etc
In fact...it is a base premise of the ideology.
Any "objective morality" comes from God...and NONE will meet standards. THAT is the "thingy" they tell of.
Name the other organization that declares all the people in it to not only be "bad", but incapable of being redeemed by themselves or anybody else?
No one here has said that "all the people in it to not only be "bad"".
Of course some disassociate after something bad occurs...be it a church, business, school, or even a town/city.
They do not want to be where people like that are known to be and active.
And they have no problem noting why...nor have a problem with others noting it.
It is your intrinsic lack of understanding ("blind" compared to sighted) that makes you think so.
I get the point just fine...which is easy, because it's the base point you all work off of: Bash, insult, & mock Religion and related. Everything you all post keys off that.
This thread is a prime example.
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