Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Apparently not so long ago, Catholic Church issued a statement advising to stop converting Jews into Christianity. https://time.com/4145056/vactican-ca...-jews-convert/
Statement says that Jews are saved per default because god never revoked his covenant with Israel
Isn't it against the basic Christianity principle that salvation is possible ONLY through the Lord Jesus? It's a bit strange that same god has two different requirements?
It just depends on the sect we are talking about. There are Messianic Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah but retain their Jewish identity. They generally believe that Jesus is the only way to be saved and borrow from both Judaism and evangelicalism. Of course, Judaism does not embrace such persons.
Since Jews don't try to convert people to Judaism, it seems natural that the Catholic Church, which I believe is currently developing a detente with Judaism, would return the favor. Also, during the general time frame of the Inquisition, the Church persecuted Jews, including through forced conversions -- so it makes sense they would make this gesture to in a sense atone for or at least distance themselves from those excesses.
Apparently not so long ago, Catholic Church issued a statement advising to stop converting Jews into Christianity. https://time.com/4145056/vactican-ca...-jews-convert/
Statement says that Jews are saved per default because god never revoked his covenant with Israel
Isn't it against the basic Christianity principle that salvation is possible ONLY through the Lord Jesus? It's a bit strange that same god has two different requirements?
Well, in the Gospels Jesus never held that all Jews are saved per default and taught otherwise. So if the Catholic Church is teaching that Jews are saved by default, that is yet another false belief held by them.
God's covenant with Israel does not mean that an individual Jew is saved simply because he is a Jew.
Beginning christianity required people to convert to Judaism in order to be a "christian".
Then came Paul
Then came you had to convert and be baptized in the Catholic religion in order to be a "christian".
Realize....none of that existed when Jesus lived.
All you had to do was believe in him..."I am the Way, the Truth and the Life"
Apparently not so long ago, Catholic Church issued a statement advising to stop converting Jews into Christianity. https://time.com/4145056/vactican-ca...-jews-convert/
Statement says that Jews are saved per default because god never revoked his covenant with Israel
Isn't it against the basic Christianity principle that salvation is possible ONLY through the Lord Jesus? It's a bit strange that same god has two different requirements?
Some Christians believe in dual covenant theology, although if I understand correctly, the Roman Catholic Church ultimately backpedaled from that assertion. Bad optics, ‘n at—not that we Jews are interested in what they’re selling, schmucks like Robert Novak aside.
Per Wikipedia:
Quote:
. . . [T]he United States Catholic Catechism for Adults (2006) states:
The covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them.
In June 2008 the bishops decided by a vote of 231-14 to remove this from the next printing of the Catechism, because it could be construed to mean that Jews have their own path to salvation and do not need Christ or the Church. In August 2009, the Vatican approved the change, and the revised text states (in conformity with the editio typica):
To the Jewish people, whom God first chose to hear his Word, 'belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ.'
As much as I appreciate the sentiment of dual-covenant type beliefs as a demonstration of tolerance and step away from proselytization (even if it only extends to those who are the blood of Christ), Jews don’t really need their or anyone else’s approval.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Well, in the Gospels Jesus never held that all Jews are saved per default and taught otherwise. So if the Catholic Church is teaching that Jews are saved by default, that is yet another false belief held by them.
God's covenant with Israel does not mean that an individual Jew is saved simply because he is a Jew.
That’s fine. We don’t believe in your hell. Or any hell for that matter. And that goes for all of the Jews, not just the Jewish atheists like me.
Last edited by ElijahAstin; Yesterday at 05:50 PM..
Furthermore, a reading of 1 Enoch, from which the lake of fire concept seems to be based in the NT indicates a belief in a place of punishment during 2nd Temple period Judaism.
Beliefs tend to change over time and this is true for both Judaism and Christianity.
Some Christians believe in dual covenant theology, although if I understand correctly, the Roman Catholic Church ultimately backpedaled from that assertion. Bad optics, ‘n at—not that we Jews are interested in what they’re selling, schmucks like Robert Novak aside.
Per Wikipedia:
As much as I appreciate the sentiment of dual-covenant type beliefs as a demonstration of tolerance and step away from proselytization (even if it only extends to those who are the blood of Christ), Jews don’t really need their or anyone else’s approval.
That’s fine. We don’t believe in your hell. Or any hell for that matter. And that goes for all of the Jews, not just the Jewish atheists like me.
Since Biblical hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead, then as in the expression of 'helling potatoes' is simply burying them - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
When the Scriptures were translated into old English the word Gehenna was wrongly translated into English as: hell fire.
Wrong because Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for the 'punishment of destruction' or as the Psalms say ' destroyed forever '
see - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
Since Biblical hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead, then as in the expression of 'helling potatoes' is simply burying them - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
When the Scriptures were translated into old English the word Gehenna was wrongly translated into English as: hell fire.
Wrong because Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for the 'punishment of destruction' or as the Psalms say ' destroyed forever '
see - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
No, it was not. Simply refer to the Jewish belief concerning Gehenna in the Jewish Encyclopedia which I provided a link to in post #6. Set aside for the moment your beliefs as a Jehovah's Witness and read through Jewish eyes what they believed Gehenna to be.
Thanks for the article.
It’s several years old now, but obviously the Catholic Church hasn’t changed it’s stance.
This sort of thing, along with shared church services with Muslims etc, is bound to draw the ire of hardcore Evangelicals. (yes I’ve read it on their sites and forums too)
But is there salvation outside of Jesus Christ?
Of course there is.
Thanks for the article.
It’s several years old now, but obviously the Catholic Church hasn’t changed it’s stance.
This sort of thing, along with shared church services with Muslims etc, is bound to draw the ire of hardcore Evangelicals. (yes I’ve read it on their sites and forums too)
But is there salvation outside of Jesus Christ? Of course there is.
Not according to Jesus.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
