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Suffering is to due to choices made in past lives. A person may have developed a type of personality that believes that life is full of suffering (ie, the via dolorosa, etc) and then attracts that in to their life. Part of it is psychological and part of it has to do with actions, but most or all of it is rooted in what we've done in our incarnations on the Earth and what type of person we've become. God can and does "rescue" people from their suffering. I have had a lot of problems in my life and often feel that God doesn't really care/isn't there for me, etc. I think I caused most of my own suffering from choices I'd made in past lives that have become ingrained patterns in this life.
Valuing life is a big reason no one wants to die, people feel they should do all they can to stay in embodiment for as long as they can, because it is a great opportunity to be here.
Ahh, but my question isn't about how to handle suffering but rather why it occurs. From your comment, I deduce that we suffer because "life's a b*tch". I can totally respect that, which I do, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it! I think there's more to life than just "you live, you suffer, with a little happiness in there, too, and then you die."
I believe suffering occurs in the world because as ILNC has stated it is a sinful world that man has put himself in and has to suffer the consequences. Sometimes suffering is something that we need to turn our life over to the Lord and say Lord I can't do it on my own ,I need You,I have turned my back on you too long and I need your guidance and help, I cast my troubles up to You,take this weight off my shoulder.
Suffering is to due to choices made in past lives. A person may have developed a type of personality that believes that life is full of suffering (ie, the via dolorosa, etc) and then attracts that in to their life.
So the first sentence applies to little kids who get an awfule diseas I presume. I can dig the whole "past lives" deal but your second sentence, kids don't make choices, at least not infants?
I get the idea that we are adults and we are sinners or it's our choice to live a crappy life. I even get it to the extent that maybe getting some horrible diesease like cancer or something else incurable can somehow be tied to the crappy decisions we made in life (eating bad, smoking etc) but what I don't get is going to a children's hospital and seeing all these sick children and how utterly and insanely wrong that can be and so far all the theories I read don't make any sense to me. Yours is about choices we make and others, more religious-type answers is "that's life, give this burden to God and he'll make it better." Very hard for me to convinced on either side I guess.
Whatever religion, if you believe in God, what's the deal with all the suffering in the world? Why do we suffer?
i read wonderfull article about this issue from islamic point of view from another forum , i will copy form it , may be it will help
1-Allah has placed a physical law and a moral law in this universe. Allah allows suffering to occur when one or more of these laws are broken. The physical law is based on cause and effect. Sickness comes if one does not take care of one’s health or is exposed to infections. A car accident occurs when one is not alert, or drives in a careless manner, or if the cars are not checked, roads and freeways are not made and kept in right shape, or the traffic laws are not right or not properly enforced. Study of causes and effects is very important to facilitate safeguards. Even here we should keep in mind that Allah often saves us and He does not let us suffer from every negligence. How many times it happens that we are not careful and still we reach safely to our destinations. The way people drive in some cities, it is a miracle that more accidents do not happen and more people do not suffer.
]Allah says: “(Allah) Most Gracious! It is He who has taught the Qur’an. He has created man: He has taught him speech (and Intelligence). The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed; and the herbs and the trees both (alike) bow in adoration. And the Firmament has He raised high, and He has set up the Balance (of Justice), in order that you may not transgress (due) balance. So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance. It is He who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures." (Ar-Rahman:1-10) The way we exceed the measures set by Allah and violate His laws of cause and effect is incredible. It is really the mercy of Allah that we are saved.
the question should not be why does Allah allow suffering, but how much Allah protects us and saves us all the time in spite of our violations and negligence.
The Qur’an says: “If Allah were to punish people according to what they deserve, He would not leave on the back of the (earth) a single living creature: but He gives them respite for a stated Term: when their Term expires, verily Allah has in His sight all His servants." (Fatir:45)
2-But sometimes Allah does punish people because of their violations of His laws whether they are physical or moral. The Qur’an tells us that many nations and communities were destroyed because of their sinful lifestyles:
“If they treat thy (mission) as false, so did the Peoples before them (with their Prophets), the People of Noah, and Ad and Thamud. Those of Abraham and Lut; and the Companions of the Madyan people; and Moses was rejected (in the same way). But I granted respite to the Unbelievers, and (only) after that did I punish them: but how (terrible) was my rejection (of them)! How many populations have we destroyed, which were given to wrong-doing! They tumbled down on their roofs. And how many wells are lying idle and neglected, and castles lofty and well-built?" (Al-Hajj: 42-45
3-Suffering can also be a test and trial for some people. Allah allows some people to suffer in order to test their patience and steadfastness. Even Allah’s Prophets and Messengers were made to suffer. Prophet Ayub is mentioned in the Qur’an as a Prophet who was very patient.
Good people sometimes suffer but their sufferings heal others and bring goodness to their communities. People learn lessons from their good examples. Martyrs die for their faith, soldiers give their lives for their nations and this brings liberation and freedom for their people.
4-Allah sometimes allows some people to suffer to test others, how they react to them. When you see a person who is sick, poor and needy, then you are tested by Allah. Allah is there with that suffering person to test your charity and your faith.
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If there is a heaven, how come nobody wants to die? Take Pope John Paul. They did everything in their power to keep him alive.
you just reminded me with the verse from quran talking about jews
2-94 - Say (o'mohammed to jews) : if the last home, with God, be for you specially, and not for anyone else, then seek ye for death, if ye are sincere.
2-95 - But they will never seek for death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. and God is well acquainted with the wrong doers.
2-96 - Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life, even more than the idolaters: each one of them wishes he could be given a life of a thousand years: but the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. for God sees well all that they do.
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Anyone ever see Lord of the Rings? That's what I imagined, if heaven did exist, would be like. We sail off into heaven as we wave good by to our loved ones on earth, not die from some horrible disease like cancer or old age or even a young age like babies for that matter.
we have many detailes in islam about paradise , if you interrested may be i will make another post for it
I bring this up because I had a memory of my Dad today. He died in 2005 from prostate cancer and one night while I was helping him get ready for bed (Mom had to tend to her mother who lived in another country), he had a talk with me and told me not to be afraid because he wasn't afraid anymore. I remember that day, hating that he said that because I knew it wouldn't be much longer. Watching someone you love whittle away is about the cruelest thing anyone can experience (next to the person actually suffering that is). If it was his time, why didn't God just take the poor man. Why'd He make him suffer for a year before taking him away?
may be God just warn them that thier time of death is near !!!!!
beside i think it may be more harmfull for the family to hear about death of whom they love suddenly
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
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Originally Posted by foma
So the first sentence applies to little kids who get an awfule diseas I presume. I can dig the whole "past lives" deal but your second sentence, kids don't make choices, at least not infants?
I get the idea that we are adults and we are sinners or it's our choice to live a crappy life. I even get it to the extent that maybe getting some horrible diesease like cancer or something else incurable can somehow be tied to the crappy decisions we made in life (eating bad, smoking etc) but what I don't get is going to a children's hospital and seeing all these sick children and how utterly and insanely wrong that can be and so far all the theories I read don't make any sense to me. Yours is about choices we make and others, more religious-type answers is "that's life, give this burden to God and he'll make it better." Very hard for me to convinced on either side I guess.
The "choices" spoken of, are a Dharmic belief having to do with reincarnation. To try and simplify...in past lives we build up bad karma from choices we have made, bad things we may have done...many bits and pieces of karma that sort of stick to us through reincarnations. The only way to rid our souls of that bad karmna, leaving us an open pathway to Nirvana or "heaven", is to learn about the suffering we caused by experiencing it ourselves. Hence a child who is beaten to death by a parents may have been, in another life, the parent who did the beating. The spirit chooses to come back as the child in the next reincarnation to experience and learn that lesson and so rid itself of that bad karma. It is all about being responsible for our own actions and decisions and has nothing what-so-ever to do with Christianity or a sinful world or the Christian belief that Jesus or anyone else can take away our sins.
It's extremely involved and actually a very interesting concept. I may be stalked and raped because, in a previous life I was a stalker and a rapist. That's simplifying it greatly but that's the basis behind the belief. I would need pages and days to cover it completely...but it's a non-Chritian's way of accepting what happens to them or others. Not liking it, but accepting it as part of the "process".
We suffer in several ways - either created in our own mind (fear, anxiety, unhappiness, worry, stress), or biological suffering. The mind suffering is simply that - we have created this suffering - our mind has created it and it defines who we think we be. Why are you afraid of something, why are you so anxious? All of this is generated by the mind. Biological suffering is just that - our body is a biological thing - it gets sick, it gets disease, it gets well again, it dies. God, the Source, the Divine...whichever your flavor doesn't "decide"anything. Your body is biological - you care for it, you don't care for it.....it's a product of your gene pool and how well or not well you've taken care of it - just like a plant or animal. By choosing to call it suffering it's given a negative connotation....it simply "is".
everything that happens to me i have chosen to have happen at a soul level and with complete agreement by all parties involved
there are no victims
there is no random chance
when i accept that everything falls beautifully into place
I highly doubt God actively runs this world and interferes with the circumstances of people's lives. It seems like the world runs itself without any intelligence behind it. If one has knowledge of happenings in this world, past and current, it is very difficult to reconcile that knowledge with an ompni-present and omni-powerful Creator/Ruler.
And yet I'm not an atheist. The word "divine" is not an empty word to me. I do think that at the heart of religions lies the truth-- that truth being that our ordinary, selfish way of being is a dead-end. The way out of that dead-end is what they probably really refer to when they talk about "God".
It's just that God isn't outside, taking care of those loyal to him and punushing those who aren't. Instead, I believe, everyone has a sort of a core, a deep-seated capacity, to reach a better way of life, the only truly human way of life. It is that core, that profound intuition, that inner wisdom which, I believe, gave rise to the notion of "God" (but then got wrapped into religious dogma, often non-sensical or harmful).
So, if we're to look at God as a source of inner strength, harmony and understanding within each human being, how does the issue of why do all these messed up things happen appear before us? Well, such a God certainly can't interfere to stop wars, epidemics, economic crises or accidents. It probably can't heal someome who is dying of cancer no matter how much that someone prays (even though less serious desease can certainly be alleviated, as once happened to me personally).
The one thing that it can do, however, is help us go through life as it is and overcome difficulties as they are-- if we reach out and seek for it. I think that the God inside us can help us find meaning in our lives and inspire us to help others find that meaning. Nevertheless, it has only as much power as we give it and it can only "act" through our actions. And it'll only "help" those who turn towards it and its only help will be to deminish suffering and make one's life more meaningful.
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