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Actually--he did. In John 10 he equated himself with God--to the point that the staunchly monotheistic Jews were ready to stone him
yes i read this chapter many times searching about any verse where jesus claimed divinity , actually the chapter proof the opposite , it proof that he is just prophet and his acts not his own acts nor his own power
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In John 14 he states that he is the way, the truth, and the life.
how is that means his divinity !!!
he is the way to the paradise , he is prophet of truth , believing in him will give you the eternal life
why he didn't make it easy saying that he is the God ?
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In John 20, Thomas calls him his "God". Jesus certainly never denied it.
sometimes i say " oh my God ' , it dosn't mean that i saw God
anyway , is that mean that thomas never knew that he is God untill this instant ?
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In Revelation He called himself the Alpha and Omega. Later on, he's worshiped in chapter 5.
Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. (RSV)
We see KJV using the Receptus deletes the words ho theos or The God and uses only kurios or Lord. The text then carries the entirely different and fraudulent intent of both texts referring to Christ when Alpha and Omega are distinctly vested in the Lord God and Father of Christ and not applied to Christ at all from the beginning.
This has much to do with the theology as it was developed from the Greek philosophical and Trinitarian concerns we see here. It was a deliberate attempt at concealing the true nature of the position of Christ in relation to his God and elevating him in the false structure of the Trinity.
He also called himself the Messiah--and Isaiah 9 states the Messiah is "Mighty God".
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So which is it? Is islam wrong about the divinity of Christ? Or are they wrong for calling a liar a prophet?
i think that christian are wrong for thinking that jesus claimed divinity
yes i read this chapter many times searching about any verse where jesus claimed divinity , actually the chapter proof the opposite , it proof that he is just prophet and his acts not his own acts nor his own power
why did the Jews pick up the stones to kill him?
They understood him to be claiming to be God--by claiming to be one with God
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how is that means his divinity !!!
he is the way to the paradise , he is prophet of truth , believing in him will give you the eternal life
He alone is salvation. Is muhammed salvation? Anyone else?
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why he didn't make it easy saying that he is the God ?
sometimes i say " oh my God ' , it dosn't mean that i saw God
Nice try. Not what happened here, though. Thomas explicitly called him his lord and God.
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anyway , is that mean that thomas never knew that he is God untill this instant ?
I think so--yeah.
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Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. (RSV)
We see KJV using the Receptus deletes the words ho theos or The God and uses only kurios or Lord. The text then carries the entirely different and fraudulent intent of both texts referring to Christ when Alpha and Omega are distinctly vested in the Lord God and Father of Christ and not applied to Christ at all from the beginning.
Read on. That same "Alpha and Omega" in 1:8 states in verse 1:18 that he was dead, and is now alive.
When did God die? This passage obviously is calling Jesus the Alpha and Omega--God.
Later on, in chapter 4, we see God being worshiped on the throne as the creator of the universe.
In chapter 5, Christ is worshiped as the savior--by the same creatures that worshiped God the previous chapter, in the same way.
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This has much to do with the theology as it was developed from the Greek philosophical and Trinitarian concerns we see here. It was a deliberate attempt at concealing the true nature of the position of Christ in relation to his God and elevating him in the false structure of the Trinity.
He also called himself the Messiah--and Isaiah 9 states the Messiah is "Mighty God".
Did you have a response for the fact that He called himself the Messiah--and Isaiah 9 states that Messiah is "Mighty God"?
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i think that christian are wrong for thinking that jesus claimed divinity
You can think that--but in the end you're going to have to come to terms with your own religion.
Either Jesus is wrong and islam has lied to you, or he isn't--and islam calls a lying blasphemer a Prophet.
They understood him to be claiming to be God--by claiming to be one with God
may be they misundertood him ?
anyway , i will suppose that you are right
did you read mathew 27 ?
22-Pilate asked them, "Then what should I do with Jesus, who is called the Messiah?" They all said, "Let him be crucified!"
23-He asked, "What has he done wrong?" But they kept shouting louder and louder, "Let him be crucified!"
24-Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that a riot was about to break out instead. So he took some water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood. Attend to that yourselves."
my question is why they didn't condemned jeus in front of governer that he claimed divinity?
if your thought is true , then they had strong reasons to crucify him but they didn't condemned him with anything untill the governer said "I am innocent of this man's blood"
did you read luke 23 ?
lucke 24-19
And He said to them, "What things?" And they said to Him, "The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people
you give excuses for yourself by thinking that jews stonned him for claiming divinity , actually this verse above tells me that the apostles themselfs believed that jesus (pbuh) is prophet
whom is worth to trust , his enemy or his apostles ? ( that's if i supposed that they stoned him for claiming divinity)
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He alone is salvation. Is muhammed salvation? Anyone else?
keep us in the words of the bible , i will not follow the doctorine of the church
you say that jesus (pbuh) the way, the truth, and the life , if that give the same meaning of saviour
sp , i believe either that mohammed (pbuh) is the way , the truth , and the life but i don't believe that he is God
simply , these words not mean he is God
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I think so--yeah.
very well , you think that it was the first time he knew that jesus is God .
isn't that refute your thoughts that jews stonned him for claiming divinity ?
my God ! the jews stonned him for claiming divinity , yet his apostles didn't know his divinity untill his curcifiction !!
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Read on. That same "Alpha and Omega" in 1:8 states in verse 1:18 that he was dead, and is now alive.
When did God die? This passage obviously is calling Jesus the Alpha and Omega--God.
i'm not sure from what you mean ? did you mean this verse ? who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty
simply it says that God is the past and the present and the future . the time dosn't involve him
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In chapter 5, Christ is worshiped as the savior--by the same creatures that worshiped God the previous chapter, in the same way.
give me the verses
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Did you have a response for the fact that He called himself the Messiah--and Isaiah 9 states that Messiah is "Mighty God"?
no , i havn't
actually i believe that jesus is the massiah
i'm sure either that massiah never meant God according to jews or according to hebrew language
[quote=elwill;6600185][quote=kdbrich;6596321]why did the Jews pick up the stones to kill him?
They understood him to be claiming to be God--by claiming to be one with God
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may be they misundertood him ?
anyway , i will suppose that you are right
did you read mathew 27 ?
22-Pilate asked them, "Then what should I do with Jesus, who is called the Messiah?" They all said, "Let him be crucified!"
23-He asked, "What has he done wrong?" But they kept shouting louder and louder, "Let him be crucified!"
24-Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that a riot was about to break out instead. So he took some water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood. Attend to that yourselves."
my question is why they didn't condemned jeus in front of governer that he claimed divinity?
if your thought is true , then they had strong reasons to crucify him but they didn't condemned him with anything untill the governer said "I am innocent of this man's blood"
Probably because the trumped up charges that they had were already set. As it was, the charge was that he was going to tear down the temple.
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did you read luke 23 ?
lucke 24-19
And He said to them, "What things?" And they said to Him, "The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people
you give excuses for yourself by thinking that jews stonned him for claiming divinity , actually this verse above tells me that the apostles themselfs believed that jesus (pbuh) is prophet
whom is worth to trust , his enemy or his apostles ? ( that's if i supposed that they stoned him for claiming divinity)
At this point in the narrative, the apostles did not realize that they were speaking to Jesus--and that he had risen. Nobody would have figured that God would die.
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keep us in the words of the bible , i will not follow the doctorine of the church
you say that jesus (pbuh) the way, the truth, and the life , if that give the same meaning of saviour
sp , i believe either that mohammed (pbuh) is the way , the truth , and the life but i don't believe that he is God
simply , these words not mean he is God
I'm sorry, but I don't believe that mohammed is the way, the truth and the life. Nobody gets to God through him--much less him being the ONLY way to God--as Christ said.
simply it says that God is the past and the present and the future . the time dosn't involve him
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very well , you think that it was the first time he knew that jesus is God .
isn't that refute your thoughts that jews stonned him for claiming divinity ?
my God ! the jews stonned him for claiming divinity , yet his apostles didn't know his divinity untill his curcifiction !!
Perhaps Thomas wasn't there at the time? I don't know. I can tell you though, that John's Gospel does explicitly say that the Jews picked up stones to stone him for blasphemy--because he claimed to be equal to God.
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i'm not sure from what you mean ? did you mean this verse ? who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty
We see Jesus speaking in 1:8. He is the Alpha and Omega, he says. You claim that it's not Jesus saying that, but God. Yet, in verse 18, the same person states that he was dead, but now lives. It's Jesus speaking--not God the Father.
Rev 1:18 "Do not be afraid! I am the first and the last,
and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive — forever and ever — and I hold the keys of death and of Hades!"
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give me the verses
Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature — in heaven, on earth, under the earth, in the sea, and all that is in them — singing:
"To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise, honor, glory, and ruling power43 forever and ever!"
--- They are singing praise to God on his throne, as well as Jesus, the Lamb. At the same time.
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no , i havn't
actually i believe that jesus is the massiah
i'm sure either that massiah never meant God according to jews or according to hebrew language
Isaiah 9:6.
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. "
To make the statement that Jesus never claimed to be God is just silly.
At this point in the narrative, the apostles did not realize that they were speaking to Jesus--and that he had risen. Nobody would have figured that God would die.
yes i know
my point was about thier describing for jesus as a prophet not God
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I'm sorry, but I don't believe that mohammed is the way, the truth and the life. Nobody gets to God through him--much less him being the ONLY way to God--as Christ said.
you didn't have to be sorry
i just exchange with you my understanding for the verse
God sent the prophets to guide the misguided people to his way
so that each prophet is the way and the truth and the life for thier followers
jesus (pbuh) also was the way and the truth and life for his people .
it's just not a proof of any divinity
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Perhaps Thomas wasn't there at the time? I don't know. I can tell you though, that John's Gospel does explicitly say that the Jews picked up stones to stone him for blasphemy--because he claimed to be equal to God.
i can't understand how you judge about this matter ?
we allready have the complete argument between jesus and jews
you keep yourself thinking that they stoned him for claiming divinity though we have the complete conversation where jesus didn't claim divinity for them !!!!!!!!!!
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We see Jesus speaking in 1:8. He is the Alpha and Omega, he says. You claim that it's not Jesus saying that, but God.
it's not me who claim . it isn't conclusions , read the bible by yourself
yes i know
my point was about thier describing for jesus as a prophet not God
And by their reasoning, he was a prophet. They may have understood him to be God prior to the crucifixion, but it's easy to see how that sort of thing would shake their faith.
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you didn't have to be sorry
i just exchange with you my understanding for the verse
God sent the prophets to guide the misguided people to his way
so that each prophet is the way and the truth and the life for thier followers
jesus (pbuh) also was the way and the truth and life for his people .
it's just not a proof of any divinity
what does "pbuh" stand for? I see you put it in your text when referreding to Jesus or mohammed fairly often. I assume it's some sort of respect given to a prophet, or an islamic cultural thing...right?
So does anyone get to God via any way other than mohammed?
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i can't understand how you judge about this matter ?
we allready have the complete argument between jesus and jews
you keep yourself thinking that they stoned him for claiming divinity though we have the complete conversation where jesus didn't claim divinity for them !!!!!!!!!!
Probably the same thing as above--when the guy that you thought was the Messiah--and God--is crucified...well, that would tend to shake your faith in him a bit. I don't believe that they understood that he'd rise from the dead.
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it's not me who claim . it isn't conclusions , read the bible by yourself
Yes--God says it. Then, he goes on to say that he was dead, and is now alive. To me, there is no greater proof text for the divinity of Christ--since it could only be him that it's talking about.
We see Jesus speaking in 1:8. He is the Alpha and Omega, he says. You claim that it's not Jesus saying that, but God. Yet, in verse 18, the same person states that he was dead, but now lives. It's Jesus speaking--not God the Father.
Rev 1:18 "Do not be afraid! I am the first and the last,
and the one who lives! I was dead, but look, now I am alive — forever and ever — and I hold the keys of death and of Hades!"
Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature — in heaven, on earth, under the earth, in the sea, and all that is in them — singing:
"To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise, honor, glory, and ruling power43 forever and ever!"
--- They are singing praise to God on his throne, as well as Jesus, the Lamb. At the same time.
very well i understood your point now
just don't get me wrong , but i was seeking about proofs when jesus ever claimed his divinity
this verse rev 1: 18 written by someone called John , who is that John ? in which century he wrote it ?
Revelation is considered by some to be one of the most controversial and difficult books of the Bible, with many diverse interpretations of the meanings of the various names and events in the account. Protestant founder Martin Luther at first considered Revelation to be "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and stated that "Christ is neither taught nor known in it" and placed it in his Antilegomena.
John Calvin believed the book to be canonical, yet it was the only New Testament book on which he did not write a commentary.
In the 4th century, Gregory of Nazianzus and other bishops argued against including this book in the New Testament canon, chiefly because of the difficulties of interpreting it and the danger for abuse. Christians in Syria also reject it because of the Montanists' heavy reliance on it.
In the end it was included in the accepted canon, although it remains the only book of the New Testament that is not read within the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Orthodox Church. See Biblical canon for details.
Artists throughout the centuries have portrayed the visions described by John.
i can't take such a book seriously , you should to pardon me
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Isaiah 9:6.
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. "
To make the statement that Jesus never claimed to be God is just silly.
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God(EL Gibor), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with justice and righteousness from hence forth even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. (Isaiah 9:6-7)"
It is quite unfortunate that in the old Jewish culture, people used to be named "Godly" names. This is quite misleading and deceiving you and your fellow christians when they try to define the deity of Jesus.
some examples of jews names
Ezekiel --------------- Strong God
Israel-----------------"Challenge God", "he struggles with God", or "fight with God". It also means "Defeat God".
Gabriel---------------Strong God
Isaiah---------------"Salvation from Yahweh"
Joshua---------------"Yahweh Saves"
Elli-------------------- "God
Immanuel--------------- God with us
Elihu --------------------"My God is He"
Eliakim------------------God raises"
Eliab-------------------- "God is Father"
Elisha----------------------"God is Salvation"
There is no prophet between me and him, that is, jesus (peace_be_upon_him). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.
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