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This post is taken from another thread wherein I mentioned the more interesting laws of the Bible. The laws I have mentioned here are all either attributed to the Lord or to Jesus. [Same guy, right?] Well, the Bible specifies, and I do, too.
My argument is that, given the context of the book in which the Ten Commandments are written, there should be no arbitrary distinct displacement of them. This is popularly done in order to uphold moral aptitudes, necessarily disregarding the moral failures which occur in the same book, and the preceding and succeeding books relative to Exodus.
It should be considered intellectually dishonest to assert the superiority of the Bible in it's moral standards with just a few verses. This takes advantage of the fact that most people will not read the Bible or research it themselves, but will agree with whatever their preacher tells them on their next visit to church. The preacher is not likely to quote Corinthians 14:34, stating that women must never speak in church, but may well quote Corinthians 13:4, stating that Love is patient and love is kind. This kind of trained arbitration is sadly all too common. I think it would be interesting to have a preacher validate and justify inane verses from the text. It would make things interesting. Maybe cause a little critical thinking, something seemingly not so commonplace with regards to the Bible.
To quote Mark Twain, "Nevertheless we have this curious spectacle: daily the trained parrot in the pulpit gravely delivers himself of these ironies, which he has acquired at second-hand and adopted without examination, to a trained congregation which accepts them without examination, and neither the speaker nor the hearer laughs at himself."
In an alternate evolution of history, the Western world would be much worse off. The Bible, taken literally [called fundamentalism], would have by now wrought a society seemingly more morally unjust and absurd.
We would no fleshy entertainment in the media...
1 Timothy 2:9
"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shame-facedness and sobriety; not with broided [braided] hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array."
We would have no women teachers...
1 Timothy 2:11-15
"A woman should learn [from men] in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."
Women would be considered inferior to men...
1 Corinthians 11:3
"I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
1 Corinthians 11:9
"For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
Women could not speak in church, only at home...
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
And justifiable full submission and inferiority abound...
Quote:
Ephesians 5:22-24 (NIV)
"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
1 Peter 3:1-2 (NAB)
"Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives' conduct when they observe your reverent and chaste behavior. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes."
A woman must sacrifice two turtle doves when she menstruates [Thanks, all-knowing Creator of the Universe!]...
Quote:
Leviticus 15:19-30 (NIV)
When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening. If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean. When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.
We would stone to death unbelievers, rapists, virgins who have sex while living with their parents, and those who work on Sunday [let's implement this one asap, huh?]...
Quote:
Mark 9:42
"And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of the city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Exodus 31:14-15 (NLT)
"Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death."
Exodus 35:2-3 (NLT)
"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day."
We would have slavery abounding, your children inherit them and we could righteously beat them in accordance with the mandates of God!...
Quote:
Exodus 21:20-21
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Leviticus 25:44-46 (NIV)
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Luke 12:42-48 (NASB) [Jesus recommends killing and flogging slaves.]
And the Lord [Jesus] said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants [slaves], to give them their rations at the proper time? "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more."
Luke 16:13
"No servant [slave] can serve two masters." [Thanks, Jesus, son of God! What wisdom!]
Children who curse their parents? They die!
Leviticus 20:9 For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him.
Adulterers? Kill 'em!
Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife — with the wife of his neighbor — both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
Non-virgin Wife??? Kill her!
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
How can someone take literally the moral aptitude of the ten commandments [from Exodus], when in the same book of the Bible, the same God advocates slave beating, death to those who work on Sundays, and in the very next book, demands animal sacrifice for menstruation, condones slavery and slavery inheritance, killing children who curse their parents, and killing people who cheat on their spouse.. I won't even bring up Deuteronomy...
In the context of a silly book with silly laws that no contemporary Christian adheres to, why should the Ten Commandments be held discrete from the other text? It is as if on the next page, God himself did NOT condone the owning of another human being, who is born with the same capacity for understanding and appreciation of life as everyone else is. Ah, but the Creator does condone it, and makes specific rules about it. Jesus himself saw it fit.
Utilitarianism, Humanitarianism, Secularism... Important ideals which we are seeing emerge more and more frequently, especially in America.
Ah, but the Creator does condone it, and makes specific rules about it. Jesus himself saw it fit.
Popular rationalization of the text is to assert that men of the age, with barbaric views on women, slavery, homosexuality, adultery, idolatry, etc., were the guiding hand in these nefarious pieces, not God. This is the view of a Christian moderate or liberal. This is the straying away from Christian fundamentalism, which is the earliest step a Christian makes on his way to full understanding of the absurdities of the Christian myth, and eventually all religion.
But did God divinely inspire the Ten Commandments which are in the same book that condones slavery and stoning? Why rationalize to justify the infallibility? Why not concede that this book, and all other religious books, are written by men to control men?
Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes....A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a regretful hankering after the past or a fettering of the free intelligence by the words uttered long ago by ignorant men. -Bertrand Russel
We do break any of the ten commandments undecided to secularism and become more prone to be unaware of it's further justifications that we become secularist.
Once we became secularist we had easy determinations for the sacred over against the profane. But the church as oneness knows them both; the state knows them one at a time.
We do break any of the ten commandments undecided to secularism and become more prone to be unaware of it's further justifications that we become secularist.
I think you are addressing a Christian fundamentalist audience with your post. I, for one, have culminated my own morals by appealing to universal standards of morality and the general inherent knowledge of what is good and just and what is unfair. This is the situation of a humanist, whether they know the implication [as a humanist] or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic
Once we became secularist we had easy determinations for the sacred over against the profane. But the church as oneness knows them both; the state knows them one at a time.
Are you talking about the Catholic church's fundamental interpretation of the bible as related to the Inquisition in 1478? How thousands of people were arbitrarily burnt at the stake? Your post is too dubious and nonspecific.
God made a promise to Abraham--and Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. God later introduced the Law--including the 10 Commandments. The Law was not to achieve salvation, but was instead intended to show that we needed a savior. That's where Christ comes in.
So yes--preach the Law...so it shows that we recognize we need the savior.
If we're going to preach the Ten Commandments should we also dish out some of the punishments for breaking them that are recommended in the Bible? That would include such things as stoning someone to death for working on the sabbath or disobeying their parents. There's alot of stone throwing in The Good Book.
God made a promise to Abraham--and Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. God later introduced the Law--including the 10 Commandments.The Law was not to achieve salvation, but was instead intended to show that we needed a savior. That's where Christ comes in.
So yes--preach the Law...so it shows that we recognize we need the savior.
God also made a promise to Abraham--and led to the point where Muhammad, child of the child of promise [ Ishmael ], came in to begin Islam. Origin Of Islam
With your argument I can justify the necessity of preaching the Law of Islam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich
The Law was not to achieve salvation, but was instead intended to show that we needed a savior. That's where Christ comes in.
So yes--preach the Law...so it shows that we recognize we need the savior.
So by your reasoning, God came [likely around the 15th and 4th B.C. era [Old Testament]] and created odd things, and then God came back [6B.C. - 4A.D.] in the form of his son, killed himself, and now some things are still tought, while most odd things are ignored? Tricky Creator of the Universe, indeed!
If we're going to preach the Ten Commandments should we also dish out some of the punishments for breaking them that are recommended in the Bible? That would include such things as stoning someone to death for working on the sabbath or disobeying their parents. There's alot of stone throwing in The Good Book.
You could quote those verses specifically if you read my original post, which includes them and many more absurdities.
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