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I was a deist for awhile and clung to the First Cause argument until someone asked me how causality could exist outside the universe. I really never believed, but tried. I never found evidence and every logical proof I came across, had flaws.
Lack of verifiable evidence and/or logical proof = lack of belief....at least for me.
Why is it that religious people can't talk about their emotional experience? They all try to justify their beleifs with logic--that simply can't be done. The only solution for them is to admit that beleif is emotional. I don't understand why they can't admit that. I just don't get it.
Because it wouldn't be very scientific. I'm am extremely T (INTJ) if you know anything about the Meyers Briggs Type Indicator. I've been accused of being cold and unfeeling. Maybe so...I just don't understand emotions--why do people value them?
excuse me, it may be worth mentioning here, i did not hear an insult from bluepacific, but share his perceptions on debating culture and more or less subtle strategies and tactics ....
stoop to insult? my hearing aides may just have this fine tuning coming with age and experience.
a bit brash with your brush, monsieur.
No? Calling me clueless, saying I have a self imagined intellect (stupid I guess), blaming all the ills of the world on people of my ilk,and calling me a liar are not insults???
Never mind your hearing aids you must be blind.
No? Calling me clueless, saying I have a self imagined intellect (stupid I guess), blaming all the ills of the world on people of my ilk,and calling me a liar are not insults???
Never mind your hearing aids you must be blind.
lol, monsieur. such is justitia (supposedly) expressing in a civilized manner.
Because it wouldn't be very scientific. I'm am extremely T (INTJ) if you know anything about the Meyers Briggs Type Indicator. I've been accused of being cold and unfeeling. Maybe so...I just don't understand emotions--why do people value them?
Emotions don't have to be "scientific" to be felt. It just surprises me that Christians will argue the logic of their position for hours, and NEVER address the emotional aspects of their beliefs. Their arguements fail completely when based on logic. I would bet that if they based their arguements on emotional value of their relition, their arguements would be less..."arguementative" and far more sanguine.
Apparently the environment is a very hot topic for you to inspire such a rant...Again I say why not begin a thread on it instead of invading other threads? I made nothing up by the way, and I'm sorry I upset you so much that you stoop to insulting me....
The bottom line is you and your sides position is still identical with these religious believers. There's no difference between either of you Sandy and an off the wall, out in left field C-34.
The bottom line is you and your sides position is still identical with these religious believers. There's no difference between either of you Sandy and an off the wall, out in left field C-34.
What the hell are you talking about?...You don't know me and you have no idea where I stand on anything except religion...I notice that you have a penchant for twisting peoples names around and making sure it is noticed with your ridiculous use of colors and bolding....Hey everybody look at me, I need to be noticed ..Is that your version of a cheap insult?...That is just lame school kid stuff, but if it floats you boat go for it.
Again you have dragged this thread off topic with your personal insults. If you are an example of believers, then it is no wonder that I am not one.
What the hell are you talking about?...You don't know me and you have no idea where I stand on anything except religion...I notice that you have a penchant for twisting peoples names around and making sure it is noticed with your ridiculous use of colors and bolding....Hey everybody look at me, I need to be noticed ..Is that your version of a cheap insult?...That is just lame school kid stuff, but if it floats you boat go for it.
Again you have dragged this thread off topic with your personal insults. If you are an example of believers, then it is no wonder that I am not one.
I did'nt take anything off topic, I simply asked someone else a question, someone entirely different from you and you came by with the same old rant a page of what religion has done through the centuries, which you already are aware I agree with, but had ZERO to do with the discussion at hand. Why don't you call it both ways ??? Why do you always get the pass ??? Or at best you could answer the question I posed to Justy. And yeah, I like colours, toned down on the bolding a bit, but still like to use it for emphasis. I also love illustrations and will continue to use them.
Again your side and position are identical to that Christendom, there are no differences between you. You've both got the same dirty background and atrocities along with a host of other skeletons. I have'nt forced your side to do what they have done. They have been quite capable on their own. The Atheistic Secular Progressive record as well as that of Christendom (or any other religion for that matter) stands or falls on it's very own merits. It's called continued failure without any real meaningful answers.
Actually I think you are mistaken here Nikk. I see many arguments here put forth by fundamentalist Christians (not atheists) that would turn me to disbelief if I were undecided, or squatting on the fence, so to speak. I believe that some that have read these "proofs" by fundies here, have actually turned to what you would call the "dark side"...Can anybody confirm this?
On another forum a couple of years ago I actually confronted a Fundamentalist on the things he posted day after day after day. I told him that I don't know where he ever got the idea that frightening people out of their minds, threatening them with eternal damnation if they didn't believe, or calling them 'evil' for believing differently than he would bring them to God. He had, at one point, attempted to call me an 'evil doer' simply because I'd had the temerity to disagree with his interpretation of a few Bible verses. I told him that had he been my first experience with someone who called himself a Christian, I would never have been baptized because I would have run so fast and so far from any church or anyone with a Bible in their hands and would most likely still be running.
On another forum a couple of years ago I actually confronted a Fundamentalist on the things he posted day after day after day. I told him that I don't know where he ever got the idea that frightening people out of their minds, threatening them with eternal damnation if they didn't believe, or calling them 'evil' for believing differently than he would bring them to God. He had, at one point, attempted to call me an 'evil doer' simply because I'd had the temerity to disagree with his interpretation of a few Bible verses. I told him that had he been my first experience with someone who called himself a Christian, I would never have been baptized because I would have run so fast and so far from any church or anyone with a Bible in their hands and would most likely still be running.
By their fruits you shall know them. A wonderful philosophical statement. The pretend fundies are no more than evil presented in gift wrap and they have the audacity to want to dictate morals to all others.
In person, if any of these were to talk down to me, I would introduce them to my five-fold ministry, particularly in the laying on of hands section.
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