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Yes, and as many of them have discovered, the goal is to eliminate the ego in order to escape the unending cycle of death and rebirth. Duh, everyone knows this. All of this talk about a personal creator is a distraction, at best. At least you'll have the next couple of lives to get it right.
I do love how not blindly agreeing with religious dogma gets classified as closed minded by the faithful, though. Theist-speak is really interesting when you break it down - love is hate, war is peace, we've always been at war with Eurasia, etc.
Do you worry about achieving Nirvana, just in case? If not, it seems a bit hypocritical to think that everyone else should believe "just in case" when you don't even follow your own advice.
Because there's simply no reason to. You tell me how to sort out which of the tens of thousands of mutually contradictory faiths happens to be true (if any) and I'll be all ears. But that would take you actually reading what I and others have written and answering those questions instead of cut and pasting Bible verses.
How about getting all of the people who agree that god and the spirit world is real to agree on what it is and how it works first. Your "everyone believes in god" would be a lot more convincing if "everyone" could agree on what god actually is first.
Anyway, why don't you reject your faith and accept the obvious authority of the Catholic Church? What harm could it do? If you're going to trot out Pascal's wager, you should at least be honest enough to convert to the religion that he thought it pointed to.
Unless you accept the Calvinist God, in which case you don't have free will to choose to be saved. The best part about finding truth through faith is that there are so many different contradictory truths to choose from. It's not just enough to have faith, you have to get lucky enough to stumble on the correct one or you're going to hell even though you tried to pretend to believe the correct one "just in case".
I thought the topic of discussion had to do with those who believe in GOD and those who do not. And how imprudent it may be, in my opinion, for the latter to disregard what is evident to almost everyone else in the world.
But as usual you twist the discussion into a castigation of different religious beliefs, and yes there are many.
But you are content to disbelieve, to see only the elephant's foot and reach your conclusions by "reason" while others all around you stand back and admire the entire creature.
God is not found through excercising the intellect. There are other tools, such as fasting, meditation, scripture study, singing hymns, listening to uplifting music, selfless service, excercising even only a tiny bit of faith if that's all you are capable of, and humble and sincere prayer.
"And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, (a very tiny seed) ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you." Luke 17: 5-6
Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge. But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more thandesire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.
Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.
Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge. But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.
And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own likeness. Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.
And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good. And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand." Alma 32: 26-34
"God is not found through excercising the intellect"
Sorry to say this but that's because god doesn't exist.
That's what you get for choosing to limit your awareness to just the physical senses.
You are missing out on a huge portion of the human experience that most people are enjoying. In effect, as the scriptures reveal is the choice of some over the ages: you have ears but choose not to hear, and eyes but choose to keep them closed.
That's what you get for choosing to limit your awareness to just the physical senses.
You are missing out on a huge portion of the human experience that most people are enjoying.
That is to say a subjective experience of made up tales which people want to believe in so badly they would throw away reason in the search of truth. Our ability to separate fantasy from reality, to methodically separate bad ideas and scams from the good is indispensable so asking us to do away with it is just madness imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10
In effect, as the scriptures reveal is the choice of some over the ages: you have ears but choose not to hear, and eyes but choose to keep them closed.
Aren't these physical senses? I can see and I can hear but not what doesn't exist.
That's what you get for choosing to limit your awareness to just the physical senses.
You are missing out on a huge portion of the human experience that most people are enjoying. In effect, as the scriptures reveal is the choice of some over the ages: you have ears but choose not to hear, and eyes but choose to keep them closed.
I feel that same way about believers, ironically....I can't rationalize how anyone can base their life on something that is written in a book, information supposedly given by some unseen force, that supposedly created the earth and everything on it....yet there is absolutely no proof of any of this.
Christianity is just one many beliefs...whose to say the Roman's weren't correct about their Gods? To a Christian, The Roman's mythical Gods may seem unbelievable, even crazy....this is the way I feel as an Atheist about all Gods....you believe in God because of faith...I have 100% faith that Gods do not exist.
I feel that same way about believers, ironically....I can't rationalize how anyone can base their life on something that is written in a book, information supposedly given by some unseen force, that supposedly created the earth and everything on it....yet there is absolutely no proof of any of this.
Christianity is just one many beliefs...whose to say the Roman's weren't correct about their Gods? To a Christian, The Roman's mythical Gods may seem unbelievable, even crazy....this is the way I feel as an Atheist about all Gods....you believe in God because of faith...I have 100% faith that Gods do not exist.
No you don't. If a god came knocking at your door, and you had 100% faith, you would refuse to believe that it is standing in front of you.
I am sure you will not be that unreasonable.
No you don't. If a god came knocking at your door, and you had 100% faith, you would refuse to believe that it is standing in front of you.
I am sure you will not be that unreasonable.
1. That is to say a subjective experience of made up tales which people want to believe in so badly they would throw away reason in the search of truth. Our ability to separate fantasy from reality, to methodically separate bad ideas and scams from the good is indispensable so asking us to do away with it is just madness imo.
2. Aren't these physical senses? I can see and I can hear but not what doesn't exist.
1. I suppose those "made up tales" would also include what was once thought by scientists to be "facts" but were disproven or added to as new discoveries came along. (As will no doubt be the fate of many of today's "facts".) For example, apparently it was not long ago that most scientists scoffed at those who believed in the tectonic plate theory. But when someone was inspired to dig deep enough below the earth's surface for evidence, the grins quickly disappeared.
There is no need to abandon science to believe in God. Your "our ability..." would also include many people who are not atheists. Science has its place, as does religion. We're all human beings having an earthly experience.
Man is a dual being, physical and spiritual. There are tools that work better than others to make discoveries in each of those realms. (Though inspiration to search here or there with physical tools, or to design new unique ones, probably comes from the spiritual realm.)
2. If you limit yourself to the physical senses and ignore your dual nature your world will be only sensory. You'll in effect see the elephant's foot, examine it thoroughly, and reach conclusions that are world's apart from those drawn by people who chose to stand back far enough to see the entire creature.
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Even if you can no more than desire to believe...
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