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To all of the people who brings up "Science can explain a lot." Tell me, where did science come from. Everything that science is about, when it comes to the way our world is, had to have been created... Science didn't create the world, it's simply the way human beings decided to explain how things are.
Science is the process by which we discover how the world works. It did not necessarily 'come from' anywhere. It is a self correcting methodology. It has been proven to work. As an example of this, look to the eradication of polio, or the invention of computers. Both benefits of science.
Now, you talk about things 'had to be created'. How about god? Did he have to be created? I contend that the universe has always been here, in one way or another. It does seem to have substantially changed in nature after the big bang though.
You contend that god has always been here.
The difference is that you cannot prove anything about god. I can prove many things about the physical universe.
Now, you talk about things 'had to be created'. How about god? Did he have to be created? I contend that the universe has always been here, in one way or another. It does seem to have substantially changed in nature after the big bang though.
You contend that god has always been here.
The difference is that you cannot prove anything about god. I can prove many things about the physical universe.
When Moses asked God who do I say sent me God said "I am that I am"
No we can't prove anything about God just as you cannot disprove anything about God. Although if you want proof look at the sunset sometime.
When Moses asked God who do I say sent me God said "I am that I am"
No we can't prove anything about God just as you cannot disprove anything about God. Although if you want proof look at the sunset sometime.
Didn't Popeye say that too?...LOL
Actually I think it's harder to believe than it is to not believe. Sure logical thinking and science are definitely a road block to faith. But I personally find ways to reconcile the two because faith brings much more to me than just facts about why stuff is. Just my thoughts anyway.
When Moses asked God who do I say sent me God said "I am that I am"
No we can't prove anything about God just as you cannot disprove anything about God. Although if you want proof look at the sunset sometime.
But there is no evidence that god exists. As such, it is not reasonable to assume that one does.
For the sunset, should it make me believe in Ra, the Egyption god of the sun? Or should it make me think about our planet revolving on its axis, giving me the illusion that the sun is dropping towards the horizon?
But there is no evidence that god exists. As such, it is not reasonable to assume that one does.
For the sunset, should it make me believe in Ra, the Egyption god of the sun? Or should it make me think about our planet revolving on its axis, giving me the illusion that the sun is dropping towards the horizon?
1 Corinthians 2:14 "But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means".
This is why it doesn't seem reasonable to you, an unbeliever is not able to understand the things of God.
The atheists on this board are just way too smart. They obviously know all the mysteries of the universe and I don't belong here among the elitest so I'll just make one last comment. Their whole existance clings on the THEORY, a theory not a fact, of evolution concocted by their god Darwin, who himself admitted that his THEORY had too many holes and errors. Obviously, the atheists here have waaaaaaay more time to spend arguing this topic, as is evident of Irishmom who should get off the internet long enough to clean her home instead of waiting for God to do it for her, because they have to justify their existence while Christians walk by faith, not by sight.
We are all going to die one day and one of us is going to be right. If atheists are right, well Christians wasted their lives believing an invisible being and a fairy tale book and we all turn to dust - no harm done. If however, there is the slighest chance that there is a God, well....I'm not the one to judge. Lets just say that atheists better be right you have absolutely no room for error!
"I rather live my life as there is a God, die and find out there isn't, then to live my life as there is no God, die and find out there is".
Lets just say that atheists better be right you have absolutely no room for error!
Lighten up a little. That post didn't sound very friendly. I'm one of those terrible atheists but I'm just trying to have a little friendly discussion. Some of the Christians on this forum sound like really nice people and after reading a number of their posts you sort of get a feel for what they'd be like. I just enjoy debating these topics because these are age old questions and they're interesting to many people.
I wouldn't call Darwin my god but I think he made one of the most important discoveries in human history. Yes, evolution really is a fact, there's just no getting around it, and it's accepted as mainstream science all over the world. One of these threads has the idea of God as the cause of evolution which is basically the belief of the Catholic church. I don't believe there's a God but I think this is a reasonable concept and as I stated on that thread we have a good understanding of evolution but we don't have a good understanding of the step by step processes between non living material and single celled life so we sure don't claim to know everything.
Your comment about "not having any room for error" seems to indicate that you believe that if we're wrong in our atheism beliefs and there really is a God then he's going to inflict the most sadistic punishments on us by essentially torturing us for eternity. That seems like a very sad and disturbing way to think.
The atheists on this board are just way too smart. They obviously know all the mysteries of the universe and I don't belong here among the elitest so I'll just make one last comment. Their whole existance clings on the THEORY, a theory not a fact, of evolution concocted by their god Darwin, who himself admitted that his THEORY had too many holes and errors. Obviously, the atheists here have waaaaaaay more time to spend arguing this topic, as is evident of Irishmom who should get off the internet long enough to clean her home instead of waiting for God to do it for her, because they have to justify their existence while Christians walk by faith, not by sight.
We are all going to die one day and one of us is going to be right. If atheists are right, well Christians wasted their lives believing an invisible being and a fairy tale book and we all turn to dust - no harm done. If however, there is the slighest chance that there is a God, well....I'm not the one to judge. Lets just say that atheists better be right you have absolutely no room for error!
"I rather live my life as there is a God, die and find out there isn't, then to live my life as there is no God, die and find out there is".
Good luck to all of you and God Bless you,
Frank
First of all...I am not an atheist. Second of all I happen to have a SENSE OF HUMOR..which evidently you have traded in for your all condemning attitude. And there is always room for error, as God is all forgiving. If you can't debate without personal insults then you should probably visit an all Christain forum where everyone will agree with you, or you can stay here and open your mind and your heart as it seems to have been closed a long time ago.
Evolution is a fact. Undeniable by any rational individual. How the process works is the theory.
This is comparable to gravity. Gravity is a fact. How it works is a theory.
You are showing your ignorance of basic science by not understanding these terms.
Darwin is not a god, and nobody worships him. He was a smart guy. He also had a rhetorical way of writing in which he would state that something was seemingly impossible, or inexplicable, and then he would explain that very thing. If you only read the first half of any given statement Darwin wrote, it will seem as if he does not trust his own theory. If you read it completely, you will see that this is simply his way of addressing potential objections.
As far at the ToE itself, in Darwin's day there were many holes and gaps. This is to be expected of any new theory. Since that time, many people have worked in this area of biology, discovered many things, and explained many things that would have been unknowable by Darwin.
As far as your ad hominem attack of Irishmom, you owe her an apology. You know nothing about her, or how she conducts her life. Neither do I for that matter, but I am not slinging misogynistic slurs at her.
Last comment. Pascal's Wager is not a very convincing argument.
We are all going to die one day and one of us is going to be right. If atheists are right, well Christians wasted their lives believing an invisible being and a fairy tale book and we all turn to dust - no harm done. If however, there is the slighest chance that there is a God, well....I'm not the one to judge.
Everyone else has addressed your other points, including your rather disturbing personal attack on irishmom, but I thought I'd converse a bit on why I think you're wrong here.
A lot of my family is hardcore Christian conservative -- almost fundamental. That works for them, and I'm glad they have something like that. (Although their desire to impart their rules on society through legislation is an entirely different matter.)
But, for me, personally, I felt restricted by Christianity. I like to have fun in a different way. I like alcohol, I like to cuss, and I like men. These are all frowned upon by Christian sects to some degree. I love living my life, appreciating it for what it is. I'm free and unbridled.
This isn't to say I'm not moral. I don't drink and drive, for instance. I don't cuss around people who I know will be offended -- my family, for instance, and children and the elderly. I hold open doors for people. I volunteer. I give money to charities. I help take care of my feeble-minded grandmother.
I'm not saying you're wasting your life by devoting it to your God. That works for you, so do it. It didn't work for me, so I don't. I was miserable.
That's also not why I'm an atheist. I researched Christianity, Judaism and Islam and discovered what I feel is the truth. I read works by Dawkins, Darwin and others who have managed to postulate things that I agree are logical and true.
Live and let live. That's what America's all about.
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