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Islam and some types of Christianity teach that women should be submissive to their husbands, and that they're essentially second-class citizens or worse yet, chattel. You think that belief hasn't been proven wrong?
Any action, in the name of a religion or otherwise, that demeans, or causes harm to another, is wrong.
Any action, in the name of a religion or otherwise, that demeans, or causes harm to another, is wrong.
But then you're contradicting your initial post where you say nothing has been definitively proven right or wrong. You can't have it both ways. There very definitely are religious ideas that have been proven completely wrong. You can't just make a blanket statement that it all comes down to what you believe...that is blatantly incorrect. Many people believe god hates blacks and gays and anyone who isn't white. Many people believe that marrying young teen girls to middle-aged men is right. Many people believe that a woman's place is to crank out as many babies as she possibly can before it kills her.
I could go on and on. There are things that are Right and there are things that are Wrong. Not all of them are subjective.
But then you're contradicting your initial post where you say nothing has been definitively proven right or wrong
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I could go on and on. There are things that are Right and there are things that are Wrong. Not all of them are subjective.
I said:
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There is not one single BELIEF in all of religion that can be absolutely proven right or wrong. So there never has been, nor will there ever be, a single "literal truth" in a religious DISCUSSION except as a "truth" is perceived by each of us as individuals
You are talking about actions of fanatical religions, I am talking about PERSONAL BELIEFS in non-fanatical religions. There are many things done in the name of religion by fanatical groups that are absolutely, positively, WRONG. I will be the last to disagree with you about that. Many people use religion to their own ends, push their own personal agenda, murder, kill, enslave others. Those are wrong and do not belong in the same discussion with those who honestly wish to discuss God and creation.
I am talking about philosophical differences among main stream religions only. Please read what I wrote in the context in which it was written and not just so you can try to catch me in a contridiction. If anything I should have elaborated a little more because the beliefs I am talking about ARE purely subjective. In that context, I stand by what I wrote.
Definition: non-fanatical religion
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Any religion that respects the rights of other religions to exist and does not promote violence or descrimination of any kind against their members. Peaceful coexistence. You want to worship a cadillac? That is fine with me as long it harms no one else.
Originally Posted by zonababe If some members could realize they possess religious beliefs and not religious truths, we could have polite conversation on the forum.
I absolutely agree, and that is the point. So many times I see people arguing and getting down right nasty and defensive to others because someone questions their "religious truths". In my mind, it's all open for debate.
I think there is a misunderstanding of the word "truth". Truth means it is true for anyone on the planet at any time is history. Ultimate truth is transcultural. Beliefs are relative, but truth is fixed. Truth is absolute, narrow, and exclusive. For example: 2 + 2 = 4 for everyone everywhere at any time. Truth is intolerant of all other answers. Truth is NOT a matter of opinion i.e. that's true for you but not for me. Check out the following laws: the Law of Excluded Middle and the Law of Noncontradiction. Two opposites cannot be true at the same time. Truth is discovered, not invented. There can be religious truth and scientific truth. Not all supposedly proven truths are proven at all. In order for something to be scientific, it must be observable, testable, and repeatable. Outside of these, it is not scientific at all.
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