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Old 01-22-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,861,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinion View Post
Faith!
.....the last refuge of those that have had their arguments defeated by reason and logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinion View Post
We could go on for days debating whether God or Satan really exist. I know they do, thats what I believe.
Knowledge and belief are two very different things. You claim to have "faith" yet you "know". You claim to "know" yet you "believe". You seem rather confused.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Within the Splendor of the Ashen Void
132 posts, read 257,161 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinion View Post
We could go on for days debating whether God or Satan really exist. I know they do, thats what I believe.
Seems as if only one of us is actually attempting to debate the subject; whereas the other is merely invoking rhetorical narratives through use of circular logic.

I'm all for debating this, if you'd like.


DD
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
3,770 posts, read 4,982,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
.....the last refuge of those that have had their arguments defeated by reason and logic.

Knowledge and belief are two very different things. You claim to have "faith" yet you "know". You claim to "know" yet you "believe". You seem rather confused.
I disagree with your opinion.


Knowledge and Belief go hand to hand.

My belief in God prepares me to study the Bible to gain wisdom of his words.

You seem confused about my opinion.

I don't have to explain anything to you or the OP about my faith in God. What would be the point?
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
3,770 posts, read 4,982,713 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubious Dub' View Post
Seems as if only one of us is actually attempting to debate the subject; whereas the other is merely invoking rhetorical narratives through use of circular logic.

I'm all for debating this, if you'd like.


DD
To me God is undebatable since he is beyond human comprehension. You cannot possibly understand his power if you question if he exist.

I believe he exist. That is the problem....

It would be like comparing whose pencil is bigger or trying to convince a tree that it really is a flower.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,861,012 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinion View Post
I disagree with your opinion.


Knowledge and Belief go hand to hand.
Not really! To say that you "know" something and then follow that by saying that is your "belief" just doesn't make any sense.


Quote:
I don't have to explain anything to you or the OP about my faith in God.
Why bother posting on a forum then?
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
3,770 posts, read 4,982,713 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Not really! To say that you "know" something and then follow that by saying that is your "belief" just doesn't make any sense.


Why bother posting on a forum then?


It wouldn't be rational. I'll be wasting my time and yours..Really!

Like talking to a tree or being on the phone with no one to talk to.




Last edited by Mr. Opinion; 01-22-2010 at 11:04 AM..
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,861,012 times
Reputation: 2881
Fair enough!
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Within the Splendor of the Ashen Void
132 posts, read 257,161 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinion View Post
To me God is undebatable since he is beyond human comprehension. You cannot possibly understand his power if you question if he exist.

I believe he exist. That is the problem....

It would be like comparing whose pencil is bigger or trying to convince a tree that it really is a flower.
And yet personal belief-systems are evidence of nothing. OTOH, documented evidence does indeed exists that proves that "Satan" is a made-made concept.


DD
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Within the Splendor of the Ashen Void
132 posts, read 257,161 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinion View Post
Like talking to a tree or being on the phone with no one to talk to.



Methinks thou shifteth the burden.


DD
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:23 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,236,103 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
There are many accounts in the Bible in which God directly executed human beings by his own actions such as the flooding of the earth and drowning almost the entire human race or turning people into pillars of salt because they got a little too curious about what was happening behind them and turned around to see it. He has also ordered his followers to massacre other human beings in very barbaric ways and to haul off their possessions and women like trophies. However I can't think of any passage in the Bible that describes satan actually murdering anyone for any reason. The activities that satan is held accountable for could be more accurately described as tomfoolery than genocide. I'm thinking of such things as lusting after a woman or wishing I had as many donkeys as my neighbor (or in this day and age a car as nice as my neighbor's). In fact I can't think of anything that has been blamed on satan that could rival the wrath of God when he's in a bad mood and yet satan is the one who's supposed to be cast into the lake of fire. Does this seem strange to anyone else? Just wondering.

I believe that it was not wholely Gods part that flooded the Earth.
In rehashing the event...according to the scriptures Evil,sins and violance caused or forced God's hand...
So whenever I see this kind of reference, That God is killing people because he likes to..or its his way...is wrong.
God wants us to do certain things, and live a certain way, that is in harmonic union with all other life.
God wants this world to multiply and make many other worlds...Multiply the givens!!!!..and we have word what was given and why?..well All the Green plants ect...Everything!
But humans do not see it as such...and because of the denial of the word, will, and truth of it, sin, and Evils that are now presently Polluting The eco systems, and devaluing everything living and dead, to an Idol of monitary value that is based on false or lying foundations is running this world to its eventual end!!!.

It comes to mind when one looks at the idol MONEY..it has some writting on it, and a value ingraved...this face value is said to be legal tender...what does that mean?
If we take this money now, to the open market place, we find the face value is not the true value...hence a false value is being used in terms of value.
So here we see the lies and the liar, and the systems which deploy this flase system over everything on Earth and even above and below earth...(All Lies come from Statan)
And they have ways of murdering the Painted criminals and oppressed opposers of the systems they deploy (insergents, terrorists,poor, destitute,enemy) that have another way of life...living for free!..a more natural one..which undermines the Democracies they want imposed on or over the world or Earth.
Thus God no longer gives freely...all the gifts are now owned...and they are not being shared with all life...it is becoming a selfish system.
And it is being very stupid with its production of garbage for dollars moto.
Polluting the planet seems to be second nature to the first nature...Murdering!

Ofcourse some do not see anything wrong because they are bribed with the luxuries of the system, and the promise that if you follow the system and support it, you will have something of it bought back ofcourse from those free gifts God has given everyone, but were stollen away for profits and gains...which the taxed hand supports.....
War is just another form of Murder...in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, these two wars are based on Lies and Liars who wanted to control Saddam and use him and his people to make war with Iran.
They gave him weapons, and plans, and instructions..and money..
But Saddam didn't want to play their Game....So they tried for a long time to kill him...But they couldn't..they oppressed Iraq for over 12 years...that is a violation of certain conventions...and Saddam knew that...and was pleading with the UN to have the oppression lifted...But the USA and England rallied against his plight, and used Lies /bad intelligence (Claimed) to go to war...
Same with Bin Laden...an American Prodogy...Yep!...he was given weapons to fight the Russians (painted enemy)..trained in the USA, and deployed in Afghanistan...Doing what the superpowers would not do...but wanted done....etc
And out of that, Hiden truth, I would imagine some rewards for his duty would be forthcoming for his people and that poor nation...But as I see things, Someone has renegged on the Bin laden senerio...and is holding back their promises on rebuilding and Giving him charge of something...instead they paint Bin Laden as the bad Guy..make him a terrorist..say he is an insergent, and send in the Guns and bombs to solve their Problem they created...
Are we following this closely?...cause it is costing You in more taxes, and a higher cost to live in the bent system of Democracy...That is killing people who are poor and destitute because of the selfishness, and the IDol which never solves the problems it creates!

Now What do you think God is showing us?, as we try to live under that Idol he said not to make?...if you look real hard, we have a lesson to learn here.

And because these Evil types of people are running the world...and Murdering innocent people in the cross fire, to keep it going on and on and on and on.....and the simpletons who support it blindly are being dashed with that Bloodshed over and over and throughout our history...Murdering for Democracy!

And God said do not murder...

So not only are we now in violation of just about every Law God made with Moses...we are polluting the verything we need clean, to live a healthy , happy life on...for Dollars!

I tell you our intelligence in this matter, with all the sciences, and technologies, and supposed wisdoms humans have claimed to have over the other life here...we seem to be pissing it up real Good in that regard...and what are those Idols going to do for us when the earth is dead and all the living things which support US..are wasting away to nothing important?
Is money going to feed US ?...No!

So be mindful...be intelligent...Go out and sow some seeds...like God said to do...be good in that...and do it for free, and for all life that God saved!

Now that makes much more sense than this God who murders for no reason.

If this world continues to murder in war...there will be more woe and wrath, and even bigger problems to solve for as we turn from God..go becomes our enemey!...so that the Idol and the wealth and those in power of some high standings will be made weak, poor, and oppressed, by those who have been oppressed by them.

The measure they give, is the measure they get!

So when we ask God to Judge the world..and dishout the rewards...I can understand his anger, when he sees the animals becoming tainted, and the clean being made unclean...and the evils and sins on this earth abounding back to the way it once was before the flood...

Oh boy...what are we doing here on this world?
And should it continue?

There should be no topsecret anything...!

And if we are to support something, I want to know everthing about everything there is to know, before, presently, and here after...so the outcomes are Fare for all living things!...Not just Humans.
I think God stands in this perspective...and as it does say God made a covenant with all the living things...it would go to show them, that we are responcible enough to be honest, honourable with their best interests at the heart of all things we do...If we are to tend and Keep the Garden...Then by God we should start soon...for the things needed to make that Garden are going extinct...becuase of our lack of intelligence in reading the Bibles first and most important instruction!

Now they have imposed new laws of prohibition...why?
TO stop people from making that Garden estate God asked for.

See the Anti Life theme in that?

Satan is the murdering Liar that lives in those who do his biddings, and is supported by the taxed hand of those who work for it...MONEY!...and support his Idols of wealth,luxuries, death, sickness, suffering, and imposed poverty living under that lie and those liars,,,...We live in death with that now showing sign.

How do we get out of it?

Jesus knows the answer!

Last edited by Sir Les; 01-22-2010 at 12:15 PM..
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