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Old 01-21-2010, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Within the Splendor of the Ashen Void
132 posts, read 257,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Nope. Don't believe you.
Read Enoch, Jubilees, and the Bible

I've read each, and the fact remains - the concept of "Satan/"The Devil" had not entered the realm of Jewish thought until the time of the Persian Empire - a mere few hundred years before the supposed time of Jesus.


DD
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Within the Splendor of the Ashen Void
132 posts, read 257,218 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
And Enoch is in my Bible [collection of Books] called sacred Writings [Scriptures], as it was in the early Church collections of books called sacred Scriptures and as it was always in the Jewish Ethiopian community converted to Christ in the early Church years, where they always kept it in their list [canon] of collected books [Bible] of sacred writings [Scripture].
What you have failed to mention is that the Book of Enoch itself was not written until circa 100 BCE - a couple of hundred years after the concept of "Satan/"The Devil" was introduced into the realm of Jewish thought by way of Persian dualism some 200 years or so before.

The Book of Enoch itself was initially conceptualized during the post-Exilic periods leading into the period of Persian influence; which is why the book revolves around the Persian-inspired legends of angels and demons.

Lastly (and most imporantly), the book wasn't even written by Enoch - the authors just used his name in a futile attempt at appealing to some sense of "ancient authority" (kind of like the Book of Daniel).


DD
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:55 AM
 
809 posts, read 1,862,720 times
Reputation: 195
Satan has influenced the death of millions. U need only to look at those he's influenced:

Hilter
Jim Jones
Pol Pot
Chariman Mao
Saddam Hussein
Ahmendenajad
Israel
Bush 1 & 2
FDR
Hoover
Obama(to some degeree) but he's just gettin started with Afghanistan
Charles Manson
Ted Bundy
the list goes on...
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,404,220 times
Reputation: 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneJackson View Post
Satan has influenced the death of millions. U need only to look at those he's influenced:
I know that OneJackson means this literally, but I kind of agree, from a metaphoric standpoint. I've always seen Satan as someone who gets his kicks from persuading humans to commit evil, and who deploys lesser demons to do the actual supernatural dirty work. Committing evil acts himself would be gauche. He's kind of like those Mafia dons who have their soliders commit the actual crimes, so that nothing can be traced back to them.

As someone who used to read the works of Clive Barker and Stephen King, I preferred Barker in part because, in general, his characters choose evil when it's presented to them, whereas King's characters are taken over by evil forces and therefore have no choice. Thus, Barker carries more moral weight for me. In his world, I have a choice in how I behave. In King's world, if a demon wants to take over my body, there's nothing I can do about it, so oh well!
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Within the Splendor of the Ashen Void
132 posts, read 257,218 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneJackson View Post
Satan has influenced the death of millions. U need only to look at those he's influenced:

Hilter
Jim Jones
Pol Pot
Chariman Mao
Saddam Hussein
Ahmendenajad
Israel
Bush 1 & 2
FDR
Hoover
Obama(to some degeree) but he's just gettin started with Afghanistan
Charles Manson
Ted Bundy
the list goes on...
And yet "Satan" was merely a concept invented by the Persians; an imaginary adversary.


DD
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
3,770 posts, read 4,983,929 times
Reputation: 1823
What I'm about to say means nothing to a non-believer of Christianity. As a believer I believe God is beyond any human comprehension.

I believe God is the Creator of all things in the Universe, he can do as he will.

Example. If an Artist creates a masterpiece and then hates it, that artist has the authority to destroy his work. Just like God has in our lives.

Gen 2:16 -17 (NIV) Translation

The Lord God commanded him, "you may eat the fruit from any tree in the garden, but you must not eat the fruit from the tree which gives the knowledge of Good and Evil if you ever eat fruit from that tree you will die"!

In the Garden of Evil the tree of life was not for Adam and Eve to eat. God told Adam that he did not want him to eat from that tree.

As we all know from the Book of Genesis he ate that fruit. As a result of what he did consequences from disobeying God had to be paid.

God warned Adam that the tree of life will reveal Good and Evil. Satan deceived Adam to disobey God, there allowing him to see what God can see.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:20 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 4,941,422 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneJackson View Post
Satan has influenced the death of millions. U need only to look at those he's influenced:

Hilter
Jim Jones
Pol Pot
Chariman Mao
Saddam Hussein
Ahmendenajad
Israel
Bush 1 & 2
FDR
Hoover
Obama(to some degeree) but he's just gettin started with Afghanistan
Charles Manson
Ted Bundy
the list goes on...
Meh 100% of the blame goes to them, Satan is just the scapegoat.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Within the Splendor of the Ashen Void
132 posts, read 257,218 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinion View Post
God warned Adam that the tree of life will reveal Good and Evil. Satan deceived Adam to disobey God, there allowing him to see what God can see.
The Serpent as "The Deceiver". An interesting Christianist theory; but according to scripture:

God said to Adam: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." God - Genesis 2:17

The Serpent then told Eve: "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." The Serpent - Genesis 3:5

Then God admitted afterwards: "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" God, after the "apple debacle" - Genesis 3:22


Scripture clearly articulates that even God admits the Serpent spoke truthfully. What then compels Christianists to label him as "The Deceiver"? Come to think of it - did God speak truthfully? Hmmmm….

Oh, and what precisely is wrong with knowledge? Why does God forbid it?


DD
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
3,770 posts, read 4,983,929 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubious Dub' View Post
The Serpent as "The Deceiver". An interesting Christianist theory; but according to scripture:

God said to Adam: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." God - Genesis 2:17

The Serpent then told Eve: "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." The Serpent - Genesis 3:5

Then God admitted afterwards: "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" God, after the "apple debacle" - Genesis 3:22


Scripture clearly articulates that even God admits the Serpent spoke truthfully. What then compels Christianists to label him as "The Deceiver"? Come to think of it - did God speak truthfully? Hmmmm….

Oh, and what precisely is wrong with knowledge?


DD
It was he the Liar, the corrupter, the thief, the swindler and the murderer who tempted Eve with the thought of eating the fruit from the tree of life to convince Adam ( Men are weak to this day for women including myself) to follow her advice.

Knowledge of I AM is for him only!!!

The Beast convinced Eve to disobey I AM ( The Lord, Jehovah, DIOS, God).
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Within the Splendor of the Ashen Void
132 posts, read 257,218 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinion View Post
It was he the Liar, the corrupter, the thief, the swindler and the murderer who tempted Eve with the thought of eating the fruit from the tree of life to convince Adam ( Men are weak to this day for women including myself) to follow her advice.

Knowledge of I AM is for him only!!!

The Beast convinced Eve to disobey I AM ( The Lord, Jehovah, DIOS, God).

And yet the Serpent still spoke truthfully; as evidenced by God's corroborating statement to the affirmative. And again I ask you - why does God forbid knowledge? Is knowledge that bad? Did God create mindless puppets, or human beings with a capacity to question and learn?


DD
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