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Dr. Jeffrey Long who appeared on "The Factor" at Fox News last night claims that it's now proven that there is life after death.
What does he consider proof? I looked at the link you provided and it seemed like just a long list of testimonials which are not credible evidence. I would like to evaluate what you or anyone else would consider to be the strongest single event that actually proves that a near death experience that involves the conscious mind leaving the physical body and making visual observations that can be verified later that should have been impossible for them to make.
What does he consider proof? I looked at the link you provided and it seemed like just a long list of testimonials which are not credible evidence. I would like to evaluate what you or anyone else would consider to be the strongest single event that actually proves that a near death experience that involves the conscious mind leaving the physical body and making visual observations that can be verified later that should have been impossible for them to make.
MontanaGuy, you have already been given that evidence. Why do you pretend no such evidence exist? And why do you keep asking for such evidence when it has already been presented to you? There are many cases of the blind seeing for the first time, yet they only see during their NDE. And their accounts have been verified. And it should of been impossible for them to see, yet they did. Consider the link below.
What does he consider proof? I looked at the link you provided and it seemed like just a long list of testimonials which are not credible evidence. I would like to evaluate what you or anyone else would consider to be the strongest single event that actually proves that a near death experience that involves the conscious mind leaving the physical body and making visual observations that can be verified later that should have been impossible for them to make.
Why not ask him? There's a contact link on his website:
MontanaGuy, you have already been given that evidence. Why do you pretend no such evidence exist? And why do you keep asking for such evidence when it has already been presented to you?
Ok, I just watched the link which is similar to other accounts that I have heard about and I still say I'm not seeing any evidence. What this woman described as light can't be verified as really being light and we just have her story and that's all. Here's what I would find persuasive, she describes floating up through the ceiling and being able to see the surrounding area. I think she mentioned Harborview Hospital so I'm thinking she was probably in Seattle. If she could have described a specific event such as a car accident several blocks from the hospital in great detail that could be verified as an actual event that took place or anything at all that happened while she was floating over the city then you'd peak my interest. Instead she goes on to describe this mythical sounding experience with people made of light and other things that to be honest just sound silly. This just isn't convincing.
Ok, I just watched the link which is similar to other accounts that I have heard about and I still say I'm not seeing any evidence.... This just isn't convincing.
If you're actually serious and not stuck on the notion that thousands of people are lying about experiencing certain things when they are clinically dead, there are about 2,000 more accounts on Long's website that you could have a look at, and a huge database of information that probably any scientist would find intriguing at least, if not totally convincing.
Here's just a tiny sample:
"So we have to conclude that NDE in our study, as well as in the American and the British study, was experienced during a transient functional loss of all functions of the cortex and of the brainstem. How could a clear consciousness outside one’s body be experienced at the moment that the brain no longer functions during a period of clinical death, witha flat EEG? Such a brain would be roughly analogous to a computer with its power source unplugged and its circuits detached. It couldn’t hallucinate; it couldn’t do anything at all.
As stated before, up to the present it has generally been assumed that consciousness and memories are localized inside the brain, that the brain produces them. According to this unproven concept, consciousness and memories ought to vanish with physical death, and necessary also during clinical death or brain death. However, during an NDE patients experience the continuity of their consciousness with the possibility of perception outside and above one’s lifeless body.
Consciousness can be experienced in another dimension without our conventional body-linked concept of time and space, where all past, present and future events exist and can be observed simultaneously and instantaneously (non-locality). In the other dimension, one can be connected with the personal memories and fields of consciousness of oneself as well as others, including deceased relatives (universal interconnectedness). And the conscious return into one’s body can be experienced, together with the feeling of bodily limitation, and also sometimes the awareness of the loss of universal wisdom and love they had experienced during their NDE..."
I died once and never came back. No lights, no voices hidden in the mists surrounding me. Nada! Later, when I rencarnated as a logical person, I realized I'd died, stopped by heaven to check it out but nothing too exciting was happening there, so I put in a formal written (in triplicate!) request to come back. Kept the "Blue", gave the "Canary" to God, and filed the "Pink" under "pending".
It was later granted by the administrators from the planet Glorgon.
There. All disproved, based on my eye-witness account. What, you don't believe me? Why not? Just because I'm an atheist? That's sorta judgemental, don't you think?
AS I've said before several times, Montana, these folks' standards for EVIDENCE and PROOF are vastly different than yours or mine. They have no training in logic, nor have they ever practiced or thought about it, obviously.
We need verification, not just someone's word. As well, of course, those who ""died" on the operating able, for example, and then were "brought back" weren't actually ever totally dead.
Let their bodies cool down to about 25˚C or 80˚ F for 24 h and then let's see them come on down to play in the second half of the game. Then, you know what? T'ain't gonna happen. Ever.
Dead is dead. Near-death is still only near-death, not actual death. And all sorts of biochemical conditions arise then which spur oddball mental reactions. Like drinking too much cheap Tequila.
That of course may be a true near-death experience.....
Ok, I just watched the link which is similar to other accounts that I have heard about and I still say I'm not seeing any evidence. What this woman described as light can't be verified as really being light and we just have her story and that's all. Here's what I would find persuasive, she describes floating up through the ceiling and being able to see the surrounding area. I think she mentioned Harborview Hospital so I'm thinking she was probably in Seattle. If she could have described a specific event such as a car accident several blocks from the hospital in great detail that could be verified as an actual event that took place or anything at all that happened while she was floating over the city then you'd peak my interest. Instead she goes on to describe this mythical sounding experience with people made of light and other things that to be honest just sound silly. This just isn't convincing.
Well then here is another account. This womans name was Pam Reynolds who had a NDE while being operated on. She points out that during the operation she could both see and hear the saw being used to cut into her head. And all of this while her eyes were taped shut, and her brain drained of blood. She could describe the interchangeable bits that would fit into the saw, and the box that they were placed in. She could hear the conversations occuring during the operation. She even heard the kind of music that was being played. She could see both the doctors and nurses working on her body. And she could do this, while she floated above them. She describes the saw used to cut into her head, as looking like an electric toothbrush. Consider the link below.
If you're actually serious and not stuck on the notion that thousands of people are lying about experiencing certain things when they are clinically dead, there are about 2,000 more accounts on Long's website that you could have a look at, and a huge database of information that probably any scientist would find intriguing at least, if not totally convincing.
I'm not suggesting that they're all lying although a few of them have obviously embellished their story to sell books. People who have suffered a traumatic injury could very well experience some very unusual mental activity as a result of it and become convinced after they've recovered that they really had a glimpse of a spiritual world. I've never heard anyone provide any evidence whatsoever that human beings have what could be described as a soul which has the ability to exit a physical body when someone slams a car into a tree or gets popped in the head with a baseball bat.
Rifleman pointed out that none of these people who are making these claims were really dead and I agree completely. No one who's been laying dead in a field for a month being eaten by maggots has ever been revived and held a news conference explaining what it's like on the other side. Near death means just what it says, nearly dead but not actually dead.
MontanaGuy, you have already been given that evidence. Why do you pretend no such evidence exist? And why do you keep asking for such evidence when it has already been presented to you? There are many cases of the blind seeing for the first time, yet they only see during their NDE. And their accounts have been verified. And it should of been impossible for them to see, yet they did. Consider the link below.
Didn't you already post that link? You keep insisting that a person born blind is unable to see things in their mind. I've already stated that while they don't see things visually, they are still quite able to use their other senses to form perceptions in their mind. But you keep howling "They can't see! They can't see!" and insist that they somehow have no perception of the "REAL" world. That view is incredibly narrow-minded and does nothing more than reduce blind people to a lesser level of humanity.
And yet you completely ignore that the woman in the video. You state that blind people can only see during an NDE. The problem you're having is understanding perception. You seem to equate perception only by what a person can visually see with their eyes. Ocular vision is one means to perceive things, but it's not the only sense people have to form perceptions. The perceptions of a person born blind, who have never had the ability to see with their eyes, rely on their other senses to form perceptions, ideas, the world around them. Even though they have no eyesight, their views are perfectly normal for them, because that's how their lives have been since birth.
There can be a difference though. Let's say a child at the age of 8 loses his or her eyesight. Let's say for some reason, maybe a diseasem it was necessary to remove their eyes. Okay, that means there is no way that person can see anything. But here's where it differs from a person born blind: that person did have vision before their blindness, and that means they have a mental reference of things like shapes, colors, faces, light and shadow, observing movement, etc. The person born blind does not have that kind of mental reference, but they do indeed have a mental perception of those things by virtue of using their other senses. If you talk about the color blue to someone born blind, you can't really know if the mental "image" of blue is the same as yours. But it really doesn't matter if the communication about blue is understood by both you and the person born blind. Who knows? Maybe some blind people can "feel" what blue is like because of its spectral reference
In a nutshell, your view seems to be that there are two separate and unrelated parts to a human being: there's the body, and then there's the mind (or if you prefer - the spirit). What you seem to be failing to recognize is that all parts are integrated and work together, with what we have, making each person a whole person. The mind works in unison with input from the body's senses, and by the brain's ability to make associations from memory (recall) based on personal experiences.
Maybe it would be much easier if you'd define what the words: "perception" and "reality" mean to you? What are they?
Well then here is another account. This womans name was Pam Reynolds who had a NDE while being operated on.
I've seen this woman a few times on television documentaries. Her story isn't convincing to me but it's better than some of the other ones I've heard. There's a number of possibilities that need to be considered. She's received alot of publicity from all of this, she has a website and her story has been written about in books so she has certainly gained something for her experiences. Also, all we have is her word regarding her lack of knowledge regarding how her surgery was going to be performed. I also had an operation that required drilling into my skull when I had surgery on my inner ear and I found out every detail of what exactly they were going to do before they did it because it was of such importance to me and she could very well have done the same thing. I wasn't very impressed with her description of her dead relative pushing her back into her lifeless body either, in fact it sounded quite foolish to me. My overall impression is that this is just an anecdotal story that follows the typical made for tv descriptions of a bright light followed by a reunion with deceased relatives in a beautiful place full of love.
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