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In Genesis 3-16, God gets really upset with Eve for eating the fruit and making Adam also take a bite, and he:
1. makes her (and all that follow her) have very painful childbirths.
2. proclaims that her husband shall rule over her. We know how some religions that interpret this literally use it to restrict women.
Do you think the punishment fits the crime for what she did? Does it show a lot of mercy and compassion, just because she and her mate ate a piece of fruit they weren't supposed to and gained some new insights?
It's odd because mammals, in general, have painful childbrith. Having worked cattle ranches as a youth, you could tell those cows were not having a good time while calfing. It seems as if god's curse extended to all female mammals....or may be that's just the way things are for mammals and no "curse" involved.
To me, the Adam & Eve myth, along with the 'curses' of womanhood, represent a knee-jerk reaction to a world where goddess worship/the Divine Feminine had been commonplace.
In short, it reeks of insecurity on the part of men.
I wonder - just how many of the world's paternalistic faiths also support polygamy for males?
Of course it wasn't fair. This is the Old Testament God we're talking about here. What would you expect from such a cruel and despicable being? Painful childbirths are fairly tame when compared to some of his other OT greatest hits.
It's odd because mammals, in general, have painful childbrith. Having worked cattle ranches as a youth, you could tell those cows were not having a good time while calfing. It seems as if god's curse extended to all female mammals.
In the world of reality, childbirth is a painful thing, trying to expel a youngster through the reproductive canal. But in the world of religion, telling women that they are cursed to painful childbirths because of what Eve did and how it ticked off God royally just seems over-the-top to me.
In the world of reality, childbirth is a painful thing, trying to expel a youngster through the reproductive canal. But in the world of religion, telling women that they are cursed to painful childbirths because of what Eve did and how it ticked off God royally just seems over-the-top to me.
But of course and that was my point. Whether the writers of Genesis had to simply find a way to explain why childbirth is painful or they simply used that as an excuse to subjugate women is debatable. For people to actually believe the religious reasoning for it is to ignore mammilian biology.
Last edited by Fullback32; 03-01-2010 at 04:25 PM..
In Genesis 3-16, God gets really upset with Eve for eating the fruit and making Adam also take a bite, and he:
1. makes her (and all that follow her) have very painful childbirths.
2. proclaims that her husband shall rule over her. We know how some religions that interpret this literally use it to restrict women.
Do you think the punishment fits the crime for what she did? Does it show a lot of mercy and compassion, just because she and her mate ate a piece of fruit they weren't supposed to and gained some new insights?
I don't think it's smart to question God's word & intent.........do you?
I don't think it's smart to question God's word & intent.........do you?
Been doing it for as long as I can remember and I'm still here...no lighting bolts. Ya know, not every culture subscribes to this thought. There are many matriarchal cultures. For example, the Iroquois (Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, Mohawk, Seneca) are a matriarchal society. In the Iroquois community, women are the keepers of culture. They are responsible for defining the political, social, spiritual and economic norms of the tribe. Iroquois society is matrilineal, meaning descent was traced through the mother rather than through the father. Also, when a couple marries, the man traditionally went to live with the wife's family. Although the leaders were men, it was the Clan Mothers who nominated and elected them, and could remove them from their position. The women made sure the male leadership fulfilled their responsibilities. Iroquois women enjoyed social equality and respect.
In other Indian tribes such as the Creek, the women owned all the property. The wigwam was hers and she could tell her husband to "get out and don't take anything with you" at any time.
So, since these nations had no knowledge of biblical ideas concerning mens' and womens' roles, were they questioning god?
Even in my tribe (Comanche), though we are patriarchal, our women are hardly subjugated to us. They are seen as equals and are highly respected. The whole concept such as Paul described 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is foreign to us.
"Let the women keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a disgrace for a woman to speak in church."
I personally dare anyone to attempt to keep a Comanche woman from speaking her mind!
Been doing it for as long as I can remember and I'm still here...no lighting bolts. Ya know, not every culture subscribes to this thought. There are many matriarchal cultures. For example, the Iroquois (Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, Mohawk, Seneca) are a matriarchal society. In the Iroquois community, women are the keepers of culture. They are responsible for defining the political, social, spiritual and economic norms of the tribe. Iroquois society is matrilineal, meaning descent was traced through the mother rather than through the father. Also, when a couple marries, the man traditionally went to live with the wife's family. Although the leaders were men, it was the Clan Mothers who nominated and elected them, and could remove them from their position. The women made sure the male leadership fulfilled their responsibilities. Iroquois women enjoyed social equality and respect.
In other Indian tribes such as the Creek, the women owned all the property. The wigwam was hers and she could tell her husband to "get out and don't take anything with you" at any time.
So, since these nations had no knowledge of biblical ideas concerning mens' and womens' roles, were they questioning god?
Even in my tribe (Comanche), though we are patriarchal, our women are hardly subjugated to us. They are seen as equals and are highly respected. The whole concept such as Paul described 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is foreign to us.
"Let the women keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a disgrace for a woman to speak in church."
I personally dare anyone to attempt to keep a Comanche woman from speaking her mind!
Or some Scottish/German women.
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