Does Satan require God's permission? (agnostic, Israel, worship, Jewish)

[howmanyknow]

you seem very confused..only because you contradict everything you say

I do not equate having a spirit or soul the same as being God.

first of all , i said you were a god (little g, not THE God), you sentence gives the impression that you Do believe you have a soul/spirit...if you believe you are just an animal who will go to dust..what is the point of a spirit/soul??

I am a follower of Jesus, but am not a Christian. I believe that God=Love but do not believe in an afterlife. It does not matter to me if Jesus is (historically) real or not, so it also doesn't matter to me if Jesus is THE son of God or God himself. Ghandi and Martin Luther King JR were heavily influenced by Jesus and to me these historical figures prove to me that Jesus' philosophy works, so the son of man Jesus could have been real.
I guess most theists call me an atheist and most atheists call me a theist (or agnostic) while I just call myself a follower of Jesus. I do not truly concern myself with the existence of God; I am satisfied with the knowledge that love exists, because I have been loved and I do love (some) people.

This statement above however shows the pinnacle of your confusion...you follow Jesus...( who according to you would also be a simple man) are you following Him simply as a guide about how to make the world a better place..? well Jesus wasnt an eco-warrior, he wasnt a gardener who went about teaching how to look after trees...He gave sight to the blind! raised the dead! so these must be the supernatural things you are following! . im sure u'll say ure following the love route...well, some people love to kill...but that is not what Jesus is about. Jesus told us to go forth and heal the sick, raise the dead! AND TRUST HIM AND ACCEPT HIM AS LORD AND SAVIOUR because this is the only way to heaven, good deeds alone wont get you there! you're not doing that..so you're not following Jesus at all...

and you say ure not a Christian...it is simply a label...but a follower of christ (i,e, Jesus) becomes a Christian....see how youre words conflict!


here again u say..

while I just call myself a follower of Jesus. I do not truly concern myself with the existence of God

well Jesus IS God. so u follow Jesus, you are following God...unfortunately what you feel is following Jesus , is NOT at all...i know this because Jesus said so....

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by howmanyknow

if you believe you are just an animal who will go to dust..what is the point of a spirit/soul??

To me the soul and having a conscience is the same thing. People without a conscience simply have no soul or people without a soul simply have no conscience.
In my opinion animals have intelligence, some species are just have more intelligence than others.
But I see no difference between an animal or a human.

well Jesus IS God. so u follow Jesus, you are following God...unfortunately what you feel is following Jesus , is NOT at all...i know this because Jesus said so....

Unless Jesus directly speaks to you, only the Bible tells you so. It just is a simple fact that God is not the Bible, nor is the Bible God.
To me God and Jesus are not the same being, especially because I do not believe in the so called holy trinity.

and you say ure not a Christian...it is simply a label...but a follower of christ (i,e, Jesus) becomes a Christian....see how youre words conflict!

I do not believe that Christ and Jesus are the same person; to me Jesus is the son of man (= a normal human being like Ghandi or Martin Luther King JR) while most Christians believe that Christ is the son of God or God himself.
So I do not contradict myself, nor do my words conflict.

[howmanyknow]

it is your lack of knowledge of Jesus, the Bible and all things related by which you make these statements...you have taken phrases you have heard and used them to destroy your own argument!!!! if you knew anything deeper about the words/phrases you use, u would understand why your words DO CONFLICT...for example you said

It just is a simple fact that God is not the Bible, nor is the Bible God

in fact, it says in the bible that God IS the word...and the word IS God. It is by Gods words that the universe was created. Jesus says himself, that He IS THE WORD (John 1:1). so those words that u got from ure brain ( who knows how you form ure opinions) , is ure simple man speaking....

I do not believe that Christ and Jesus are the same person; to me Jesus is the son of man (= a normal human being like Ghandi or Martin Luther King JR) while most Christians believe that Christ is the son of God or God himself.

you talk about son of man, son of God. these words are from the bible, im not sure if you know that, so obviously ure taking some of the bible to be true to some extent. Read the bible again, and you will understand what is meant by son of man/son of god...LOL....I have to laugh because THERE is where I can say now without hesitation that you ARE confused. i am not trying to mock you...but u dnt understand the meaning of these words, or the context in which they were used...did u even read the words that comes after the statement 'son of man/God in the bible'? because that is where it is from...read the rest of the verse!!!lol these words u have used to destroy ure own argument, so much so that i dont have to anymore!!!!

Your simple interpretation of son of man, is not what it is at all, you shouldnt use phrases that you dnt understand in a debate. Has anyone told you the meaning, or are u using ure own mind to come to a conclusion
( and how can u when u know very little about what u are talking about!!!).Find out what is meant by son of man and son of God...you will be surprised!!!! let me leave you with this. Jesus said himself "I and My Father are one" "The word was made flesh"

[howmanyknow]

to me Jesus is the son of man

i think i can safely say you dont understand what this means..because by using these 8 words alone you are saying that.... Jesus is God, the word, and Saviour of mankind who has made a way into heaven!

[howmanyknow]

maybe once u have found out the true meanings you will want to rephrase your statement...otherwise your ignorance betrays you...

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by howmanyknow

maybe once u have found out the true meanings you will want to rephrase your statement...otherwise your ignorance betrays you...

On what grounds do you call me ignorant?
I do not think that I am confused or that I do not understand the Bible.
It certainly is a fact that I interpret the Bible differently than you do, but does this make me ignorant?
At the very least I don’t call the people I disagree with ignorant, simply because they do not interpret things the same way I do.

[howmanyknow]

well right there...you dodge the question...never answer a statement boldly..
i say ignorant as you are quoting things i.e. son of man and using it as a way to make your argument but if you actually knew what it meant, you would have avoided it completely as it invalidates ure argument completely! that is ignorance...i am not disagrreing with everything i agree Jesus is the son of man...but do YOU know what it means? obviously not fully otherwise you would not have used it here!!! that means u dnt understand it.....it seems you just like to pick and chose and put it in your own context..also ignorance...I MAKE A POINT...YOU AVOID IT COMPLETELY AND GO OFF ON A TANGENT...this is how most of this topic as gone with you...you took the least important statement and made it a selling point..maybe again because you are ignorant to the true answer so ignore it...I have yet to see an informed response from you that is backed by some type of evidence or opinion rather than your own! that =ignorance. like i said its not a way to bash you....it just IS ignorant...if i was wrong i would say i was..(like i did earlier on) so why cant you accept that you don't know what you are talking about and therefore are ignorant in this area and topic.

[howmanyknow]

that as i stated above are the reasons why you are ignorant..you dont know what the meaning of son of Man or son of God means...and used it in your argument which makes me laugh because it counteracts everything you have argued. a non ignorant person would not have made such a glaring mistake. you also do not answer questions put to you directly, whereas i do and back it up with scripture. so on that basis you are ignorant in this area..maybe you're good at playing the piano, so in that area you may not be ignorant...but in this case...given your lack of response , then use of terms that destroy your argument..you are ignorant. its that simple.

[howmanyknow]

when Jesus says I AM THE WORD ...how else do you wish to interpret it???? or when He calls himself both the son of Man and the son of God (at different stages of His life, look it up in the bible).

If you are using phrases, make sure you understand what it means..do you know what it means???? if you are going to respond, respond to the debate at hand and stop going off on a tangent, the art of debate is to see a point and tackle it

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by howmanyknow

when Jesus says I AM THE WORD ...how else do you wish to interpret it????

Obviously not literally.

the art of debate is to see a point and tackle it

To truly debate you have to understand the reasoning of your 'opponent'.
It is obvious to me that you do not understand my reasoning. You’d rather call me dodgy instead of saying that you disagree with me or do not understand what I’m saying..
I find it obvious that I disagree with you, so I would not classify myself as dodgy.

well right there...you dodge the question...never answer a statement boldly..
i say ignorant as you are quoting things i.e. son of man and using it as a way to make your argument but if you actually knew what it meant, you would have avoided it completely as it invalidates ure argument completely! that is ignorance...i am not disagrreing with everything i agree Jesus is the son of man...but do YOU know what it means? obviously not fully otherwise you would not have used it here!!!

I find it superfluous for Jesus to call himself the son of man. Which human (besides Adam & Eve if you take Genesis literally) is not the child of another human?