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WOW! I didn't even know who Armstrong was, and came across a book online about the last days written by Ronald Weinland. He thinks he and Armstrong are the last two final witnesses of the last days. Well, considering these two are supposed to be killed by the antichrist and their dead bodies left in the streets of Jerusalem to be raised after 3 1/2 days, I'd say they're one short! Armstrong's dead. It was AFTER I read this book, that I came in contact with this cult! Amazing, or maybe not so amazing, that these false prophets are connected!
This L. Ray Smith group told me they are not of Armstrongism or Universalism ~ all I know for sure is they use bibletruths.com (Ray's site) and a Concordant Literal Translation (CLT) version of the Bible, which is still a work in progress. Whatever they ARE, I don't believe it's of the TRUTH.
Hi believers who believe in the eventual restoration of all to God through Jesus Christ are in a saving relationship with God, adeliaw. I have been a believer for many years, knowing that Jesus died for sins. He is my Savior and Lord just as He is your Savior and Lord. We have a different understanding on some things that are presented in the scriptures. Thanks for sharing anyway. God bless.
The interesting thing about this group is that they don't claim any particular church root or doctrine (other than bibletruths.com, created by L. Ray Smith). Many, if not most of the people following Ray's teachings do not claim to be saved (yet) and thus, I am questioning whether Ray claims to be saved either! Indeed, no one can understand the truth of the Word without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, nor can they have this guidance until they receive the Holy Spirit through salvation!
Hi Carrie, believers who believe in the eventual restoration of all to God through Jesus Christ have existed since the early days of the church, before Ray Smith came into being. It is not about following the teachings of Ray L. Smith. He is just one person who has this belief and he shares his reasons/information for the belief. I came to this belief through studying God's word with the help of His Holy Spirit so I am not a follower of Ray Smith but I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I do agree with much of what Ray Smith has shared just as I do with other believers who have this belief. Here are additional links about this belief. Take care and God bless you.
I'm not stating you are not saved; that would be your call. Many that follow L. Ray Smith's teachings or guidance and the CLT Bible do not claim to be saved...yet. You can start with this link and go from there...REFUTE of SALVATION for ALL Doctrine While I've written other hubs, such as "Salvation: Unless God "Drag" Us?, "Who Are God's Elect?", and "God Created Evil", many of the spiritual hubs written are to address these teachings of L. Ray Smith. I mean well, and feel I must share what I've studied to fight the good fight, as all you are attempting to do as well. Our goal should be for the salvation of people, and I believe it comes through the cross, not through fire of any sort. Our works are tried by fire, and only the works of the Lord will be rewarded (not burned up). I believe salvation is for today and not for the "eventual" dragging of God. In His love, Carrie
Hi Carrie, I did end up finding your article. I do appreciate your heart but I found as I was reading it that you presume many things that are not true about my beliefs. I do not claim to speak for all universalists, but many of the things you mention simply spring from a misunderstanding of the doctrine, as is usually the case.
As others have said, universalism did not start with L. Ray Smith and I'm not going to sit here and personally vouch for everything he says and believes. Universalism has been around since the very earliest believers and was in fact the prevailing doctrine of the church until around 500 AD or so.
I'm off to a summerfest in our small town with the wife and kids so no time for debating right now. Thanks anyway and take care,
Hi Carrie, I did end up finding your article. I do appreciate your heart but I found as I was reading it that you presume many things that are not true about my beliefs. I do not claim to speak for all universalists, but many of the things you mention simply spring from a misunderstanding of the doctrine, as is usually the case.
As others have said, universalism did not start with L. Ray Smith and I'm not going to sit here and personally vouch for everything he says and believes. Universalism has been around since the very earliest believers and was in fact the prevailing doctrine of the church until around 500 AD or so.
I'm off to a summerfest in our small town with the wife and kids so no time for debating right now. Thanks anyway and take care,
Daddy3.0
Well, I have only been dealing with the L. Ray Smith Dude's followers and believe me, these are the very things I've addressed in that hub. This particular forum has to do with L. Ray Smith, not necessarily universalism as a whole. So, please forgive me if you don't follow all his teachings. I understand he's suffering from cancer right now, so I do pray he finds salvation, if he doesn't already claim it, before his last breath...that comes from a Bible-believing, Spirit-filled, Born-Again Believer in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. God bless ~~
Hi Carrie, believers who believe in the eventual restoration of all to God through Jesus Christ have existed since the early days of the church, before Ray Smith came into being. It is not about following the teachings of Ray L. Smith. He is just one person who has this belief and he shares his reasons/information for the belief. I came to this belief through studying God's word with the help of His Holy Spirit so I am not a follower of Ray Smith but I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I do agree with much of what Ray Smith has shared just as I do with other believers who have this belief. Here are additional links about this belief. Take care and God bless you.
Shana, I am really reserved to read anything by L. Ray Smith. His group has some really strange teachings and have obviously twisted the word. Hope you got a chance to read my link. When I find something that is "different", I do go back and do my own study on the subject. I do observe in my studies that God gets angry and judges, then He is merciful and blesses. I see similarities with geenna fire and brimstone upon Edom (seeming to align with the LOF in Revelation), yet then it's inhabited by animals?? Of course, He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with the same elements. I'm still studying.
I did a study on Lucifer today. I know my traditional Christian teachers had me believing Lucifer was Satan, but in my studies today, I have found he is the king of the Last Day Babylon, the AntiChrist (or the beast). The Dragon is the one who warred with God in heaven over the mother of the Jesus and wages war on the saints until he's bound for the Millennial reign. He and a third of the stars (angels) were indeed cast out of heaven to the earth, where he reigns. He's our problem every day of our lives and seeks to deceive even the very elect of God, if it were possible. We must stay studied up and on our guard, AMEN.
Shana, I am really reserved to read anything by L. Ray Smith. His group has some really strange teachings and have obviously twisted the word. Hope you got a chance to read my link. When I find something that is "different", I do go back and do my own study on the subject. I do observe in my studies that God gets angry and judges, then He is merciful and blesses. I see similarities with geenna fire and brimstone upon Edom (seeming to align with the LOF in Revelation), yet then it's inhabited by animals?? Of course, He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with the same elements. I'm still studying.
I did a study on Lucifer today. I know my traditional Christian teachers had me believing Lucifer was Satan, but in my studies today, I have found he is the king of the Last Day Babylon, the AntiChrist (or the beast). The Dragon is the one who warred with God in heaven over the mother of the Jesus and wages war on the saints until he's bound for the Millennial reign. He and a third of the stars (angels) were indeed cast out of heaven to the earth, where he reigns. He's our problem every day of our lives and seeks to deceive even the very elect of God, if it were possible. We must stay studied up and on our guard, AMEN.
Hi adeliaw, I was wondering what teachings in particular (other than universalism obviously) you feel that L. Ray Smith has twisted...??? Just curious, as I said previously I'm not going to sit here and vouch for everything he has posted and believes...curious for what you have to say.
Regarding your second paragraph I personally find it too much to try to disect Revelations and make sense of it. I think if God meant for us to do so, He would have made it much easier to understand.
Hi adeliaw, I was wondering what teachings in particular (other than universalism obviously) you feel that L. Ray Smith has twisted...??? Just curious, as I said previously I'm not going to sit here and vouch for everything he has posted and believes...curious for what you have to say.
Regarding your second paragraph I personally find it too much to try to disect Revelations and make sense of it. I think if God meant for us to do so, He would have made it much easier to understand.
daddythreepointoh, while there are many things L. Ray Smith seems to miss the mark on, the greatest and most serious is that of salvation through fire/tribulation/judgments on the earth. Even worse, he teaches that some will not be saved until AFTER they die when they are tried by the Lake of Fire. This is grossly in error and I pray for him to "see", so the Dragon/the Serpent of Old/the Devil/Satan keeps them from repentance now and salvation now. God has made the way. The god of this world has blinded people, but God is greater and all things are possible with Him. I wrote a hub called The Devil's Purpose, which includes how we overcome him. Anyhow, that's what I'm most concerned about with Ray's teachings.
daddythreepointoh, while there are many things L. Ray Smith seems to miss the mark on, the greatest and most serious is that of salvation through fire/tribulation/judgments on the earth. Even worse, he teaches that some will not be saved until AFTER they die when they are tried by the Lake of Fire. This is grossly in error and I pray for him to "see", so the Dragon/the Serpent of Old/the Devil/Satan keeps them from repentance now and salvation now. God has made the way. The god of this world has blinded people, but God is greater and all things are possible with Him. I wrote a hub called The Devil's Purpose, which includes how we overcome him. Anyhow, that's what I'm most concerned about with Ray's teachings.
Well I have to say I do happen to believe the same as he does regarding this.
You state in your reply that "God is greater and all things are possible with Him".
The god of this world has blinded people, but God is greater and all things are possible with Him.
Okay, then Adeliaw, do you believe that God is able to open all eyes, enlighten all and win all to Himself, destroying the power of the god of this world to deceive and blind people? I believe that God is able to do this and that He will do this. Take care and God bless.
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