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I am merely describing the characteristics of pretty much every atheists I've encountered. If that insults you then prove me wrong. Approach the conversation with a more friendly tone for a change instead of mocking me. I put for a challenge to show me one example where you agreed with a Christian in a debate. Just one from ANY Christian. Surely, not every Christian is wrong 100% of the time. To believe this is the epitome of arrogance.
If you're really that interested (I doubt it) you can find examples in my own posting history where I have occasionally granted points and agreement even to the likes of Eusebius and Vizio, and for the record, I will admit that they aren't wrong 100% of the time and I occasionally agree with them even if it's not much more often than hell freezes over.
I have much more areas of agreement with most Christians than with those two, also; most are far less informed about their own faith and therefore less willfully ignorant / obstinate. Many can even at least concede a logical point and admit that they remain in the faith by act of will in spite of the point. There are some such as those that I even have mutual respect with.
I think you would be very hard pressed to objectively show that a Christian is being given anything resembling a hard time for anything other than ignoring / refusing to address perfectly valid logical arguments. It is my general experience that if I respond to a believer's post with, say, five carefully worded points, they will ignore 4 and respond to the 5th in a manner that is, much more often than not, completely intellectually dishonest, and/or rife with logical fallacies to the point that it reflects something in between ignorance (often willful) and disingenuousness. Often in the form of spouting tired apologetics that have been dispensed with a thousand times already.
It doesn't help that some Christians are such Bibliolaters that they can't understand why proof-texts are not admitted in evidence other than for the sake of argument and at the discretion of the interlocutor. Christian's normal belief support mechanisms largely aren't admissible in the kinds of discussions we have here.
So most of what you decry as unfriendliness of tone, mocking, and disagreement for its own sake, is nothing more than not allowing you to frame the discussion or set the rules of debate or burden of proof in a manner that is favorable to your predetermined conclusions. It is true that we don't grant you automatic respect and deference, but we're not picking on you, either. If you want respect, try being respectful yourself -- not just of us, but of the rules of logical engagement.
I did and you poo-pooed it, so I see no reason why anyone else should submit to your demands, especially since you obviously have no intention to participate in any debate. I provided the one point where I agreed with a Christian in a religious debate, simply because that is where every Christian argument ultimately leads. I agree that "belief in God requires faith" is a cop-out, but only for the Christian side.
No you didn't. You only provided a broad stroke point that anyone would agree on. Belief in anything requires a degree of faith. It requires faith to sit in your chair and believe that it will support you. That doesn't prove to me that you are capable of accepting evidence from a Christian.
No you didn't. You only provided a broad stroke point that anyone would agree on. Belief in anything requires a degree of faith. It requires faith to sit in your chair and believe that it will support you. That doesn't prove to me that you are capable of accepting evidence from a Christian.
No it does not require faith to believe anything.
There IS an element of uncertainty in anything. Beliefs therefore are based on degrees of probability based on currently available information, and on rational defaults in the absence of information.
It does NOT require faith for me to sit in a chair. It requires KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE which yields a high PROBABILITY that the chair will not fail and does not require, say, a metallurgical study or xrays or something. The knowledge is that I have sat in literally thousands of chairs in my lifetime on an everyday basis in a variety of circumstances and I am so good at judging chairs will hold me up, as borne out by them actually holding me up, that it is not at all a matter of faith to sit in a chair that's new to me, based on little more than a glance and some subconscious evaluation.
Just because I discount the 0.00001% probability I could one day be wrong about a particular chair does not constitute anything resembling faith. Even if it did, it would undermine your point, because my rational judgment of the probability of your particular god (much less any god at all) is roughly the same -- 0.00001%. And if I were to make the leap of faith and embrace god it would be equivalent to refusing to ever sit in a chair again because it might collapse. THAT is the actual corollary.
No you didn't. You only provided a broad stroke point that anyone would agree on. Belief in anything requires a degree of faith. It requires faith to sit in your chair and believe that it will support you. That doesn't prove to me that you are capable of accepting evidence from a Christian.
As Mordant so eloquently explained to you the definition of faith, you see that one needs to have knowledge of the definition of words before attempting to engage in reasonable discussions in this forum. As Matt Dillahunty explained, "If you can show me where I believe in anything based on faith, then I will quit believing it", because faith is not a pathway to truth. And why would anyone want to believe anything that is not true?
There IS an element of uncertainty in anything. Beliefs therefore are based on degrees of probability based on currently available information, and on rational defaults in the absence of information.
It does NOT require faith for me to sit in a chair. It requires KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE which yields a high PROBABILITY that the chair will not fail and does not require, say, a metallurgical study or xrays or something. The knowledge is that I have sat in literally thousands of chairs in my lifetime on an everyday basis in a variety of circumstances and I am so good at judging chairs will hold me up, as borne out by them actually holding me up, that it is not at all a matter of faith to sit in a chair that's new to me, based on little more than a glance and some subconscious evaluation.
Just because I discount the 0.00001% probability I could one day be wrong about a particular chair does not constitute anything resembling faith. Even if it did, it would undermine your point, because my rational judgment of the probability of your particular god (much less any god at all) is roughly the same -- 0.00001%. And if I were to make the leap of faith and embrace god it would be equivalent to refusing to ever sit in a chair again because it might collapse. THAT is the actual corollary.
And given the hundreds of little evidences which support Christianity, I used my knowledge and personal experience to rationally conclude that God does indeed exist, and Jesus Christ is my Savior.
And given the hundreds of little evidences which support Christianity, I used my knowledge and personal experience to rationally conclude that God does indeed exist, and Jesus Christ is my Savior.
Can to share with us what you would consider the best 5 of those hundreds?
And given the hundreds of little evidences which support Christianity, I used my knowledge and personal experience to rationally conclude that God does indeed exist, and Jesus Christ is my Savior.
For the life of me, I have never understood this phrase.
For the life of me, I have never understood this phrase.
I think you need to believe in the concept of Original Sin to "get it."
Everyone is born stained with sin and commits a zillion more during the course of their life. Believing in Christ as a saviour will expunge that/those sins and thereby spare the sinner from eternal torment in hell - which the Christian god invented because he loves us.
The Jews will once again re-occupy the city of Jerusalem (Zechariah 8:4-8), Fulfillment: June 7, 1967.
The land of Israel will be reclaimed from its desolation, becoming once again a land of agricultural abundance (Ezekiel 36:34-35). Fulfillment: 20th Century and continuing.
The Hebrew language will be revived from the dead (Zephaniah 3:9). Fulfillment: 19th & 20th Centuries.
All the nations of the world will come together against Israel over the issue of the control of Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:1-3). Fulfillment: Currently occurring.
Now if only the tiny nation of Israel had gone into the dustbins of society along with the other ancient civilizations then atheists could say that the Bible is false. But Israel thrives today as a major political player on the world stage.
Now if only the tiny nation of Israel had gone into the dustbins of society along with the other ancient civilizations then atheists could say that the Bible is false. But Israel thrives today as a major political player on the world stage.
Thanks for providing these. I'm sure many others will be able to provide a detailed analysis of your claims, but I can only express more general comments at this time.
Multitudes of archaeological evidence disproves many parts of the Bible, i.e. Noah's flood, the Exodus, the story of Adam and Eve. However, as one part of a book being proved does not prove the entire book, neither does the disproof of one part of a book disprove the entire book.
The article you provided concerning Israel is only the author's interpretation of those passages, so they aren't as well-defined as you are suggesting.
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