Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
Saying I have no evidence does't exactly support what you are trying to say.
I believe that God created the laws of the universe. That includes the processes of evolution and carbon dating, which BTW is only good for 15,000 years. I think you meant to say radiometric dating.
Science only discovers what God has created.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
You might like to look at that again.
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Good catch, Rafi. Only 15,000 years for C14? Ergo: Proof positive of a lack of scientific literacy, and yet here he is, arguing against scientific discovery.
In an earlier post on this thread,
(#5: "So you have proof that the Big Bang and Evolution came about by mere chance?") he also conveniently tries to confuse the origins of the universe with evolution and "chance". One of these we're still not sure of but are hard at work on. We have scads of intriguing evidence pointing to several viable but competing answers. As for the other, we
absolutely know and understand, and have delineated all or most of the mechanisms for, and have fossil and geological and lab and DNA
proof of. And yet, they still come out of the woodwork, chanting their dismissals and mis-quotes and illogical arguments, like a bad "B" or even "C"-grade Hollywood horror movie:
"The Endless Unstoppable Termites That Ate Reason!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable
you know scientists have great brains they can come up with lots of mad theory's of how the universe was created-only problem is is that its just that-THEORY-
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Aaaaaand... there's the other one!
"It's ONLY A Theory!"
They, trying to slam the pie of scientific definitions back in our faces. Sadly, we closed down that game several decades ago, but still they show up, blathering the same brainless tripe. Again and again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
Faith is the last refuge of those that have had their arguments defeated by reason and logic.
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I LOVE it, Rafi! So Appropo!
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There's the evidence we
do have for our universe's beginnings
(From nothing? Nope. Probably from the left-overs or transformation of another version, parallel or not.). Example, &
clue # 1: The Hubble telescope confirmed our earlier but weaker evidence that the universe is expanding. From what? Which point of origin? We look and measure and find many points are all simultaneously moving away from a singular point, and at a certain speed. A bit of back-of-the-napkin
calculatin', (any fool can do it, BTW...) and you can calculate a point in space and time, earlier than now, when we were all a lot tighter together. You know: a point of origin? Get it?
Want to dismiss that? How? Why?
Your alternate theory?
(You know; aside from an anthropomorphic bearded hominid beastie-man-thing lurking around in space, answering billions of prayers simultaneously each and every minute of the day.... sigh.). This concept
clearly shows the huge limitations on some folks' creative imaginations, or perhaps even on their maximum-available intelligence.
Then there's that old Speed-of-Light" conundrum.
Clue # 2. We know how fast light travels. We also understand
(well, some of us anyhow 
) The Doppler Effect for measuring the speed of an approaching or retreating body. We then calculate and realize that some of the stars we see are literally light from millions or billions of years ago.
We also find ancient traces of Big Bang background radiation.
Clue # 3. Then, we find interesting components within ancient meteorites that occasionally land here on Earth. The makeup of these ancient messengers, absent violent involvement with other materials, is ominously consistent across the universe, and it matches the makeup of the oldest bodies in the skies, suggesting
(clue # 5) that there was an original consistent and homogenous body of formative materials.
The best and most hilariously creative answer from the IDTrs*? That God placed that light out there in just the right position to confuse us. That He adjusts the speed of light as necessary. That the sun is but a set of mirrors. Etc. etc.
What
utter bovine excretia. Does it tell you
that stuff,
specifically, in the bible, where they didn't even know that light had "speed"? Nope. This is just you guys, making it up as you go, which, believe me, doesn't quite cut it in an honest, informed and sophisticated debate. At the very least you should admit that some of our evidence is worthy of your diligent and honest consideration.
But instead: the best you can come up with to "defend" your *Intransigent Dogmo-Theories* is that implausible, undemonstrable and frankly, easily disproved, "plonk". Puh...Leeez!
We don't need to prove anything. WE have loads of ever-expanding evidence that,
since it turns out to be exactly on the right track, conveniently
does fit with our expanding model of Universal Origins. Now, you'd expect
that since it
is on the right track. If it wasn't, we'd abandon it ASAP and go looking elsewhere, but we haven't had to. We can smell success; it's in the winds now.
But for the IDT fringe group, it's same old same old. Tough sledding for your side, I'd say, what with all those rocks in your pathway. Ouch!
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