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If God designed us all as independent, non-evolving, non-interacting species, separated by chemistry or magic from successfully mating, there are a few questions that need to be answered.
1. Why did He make our DNA near-identical? After all, this is a guy who created the entire universe with a snap of His fingers, more or less instantly, in all it's vast and varied glory. All those hugely different star systems and all the apparent Earthly organic variations.
2. But... with DNA genome mapping, we now find very minor specific differences, but also, for almost all of our biochemical systems, we're functionally, biochemically and even physically identical to some chimps and lemurs. An alternate "hypothesis" of Evolution would strongly suggest that we had a common proto-ancestor.
3. If we're original and unique designs, why do we carry bits of older species in our own genes, segments that are simply turned off. This has been uncovered and verified in the spectacular new science tool of DNA genome mapping, and as more and more species are mapped, the evidence just grows and grows exponentially.
4. Examples are the find just this last fall that chickens harbor the exact genomes for a long vertebrate tail, exactly of the type we find in dinosaurian proto-bird fossils. We also have now found, in those same chickens, turned-off genome segments that, when turned on, produce exact duplicates of carnivorous dinosaurian dentition (teeth).
5. What was God thinking here? Was He tired, or bored, or lazy or confused, and so just turned the Designer Dial a bit to add or turn off these obviously linked genes? The hypothesis by IDrs is that all God's designs are perfect as they are!
6. So, why do we then suffer from so many genetically caused mechanical failings, like lower back weaknesses, a bad drainage setup on our kidneys, and neck structural weakness that are all solved if we were to walk on all fours? Why do our digestive systems prefer a more ancient, omnivorous diet that works so well for our primate ancestors?
7. Why do we humans carry turned-off ancient viral DNA, similar or identical to that carried only in the DNA of modern primates, but not in that of hippos, lizards, etc.? Of course, obviously, this would be exactly the case if our direct co-ancestors also suffered from, and thus carried, these identical and persistent segments, once labelled as "junk" DNA.
(NOTE: it's to be anticipated that all the other previously labeled "junk" DNA, about 5% of the total of our genome, will shortly be linked to other early primate functionalities. Hard to ignore these findings.)
So why did God purposely place it all in there? Or perhaps it's just been passed on, reliably, over the generations, through the wonder of cell replication.
(NOTE: we now know that none of it is junk, but rather it all carries an evidentiary story, all unfolding as we apply the vast power of computer analysis to the once-daunting task of genome mapping.)
8. WE now know, again, from DNA studies in just the last 8 months, that the average number of mutations between a given single generation in humans is 175. (NOTE: there are over 4 billion base pairs in the human genome, so this is hardly a significant number of mutations, but if it codes for the correct or incorrect "build" of your red blood cell walls, it can be significant!)
These then show up in the next generation, plus another 175. Those that are lethal often cause death or disease. Others can lead to unexpected changes in height, hair color, intelligence, number of internal nose hairs or whatever...
("Hmmm... No-one in our family history ever had red hair! I wonder how that happened! Isn't God wonderful?")
Others might improve something, like our immune system, and thus they add to our improving genome.
9. And so... we "transition" along, like all organisms. Oh, yeah, unless we can't evolve, and it's all an inviolate Godly design. But.. why then does He allow those mutations and improvements?
10. So, an Intelligent Designer produced hugely flawed and still-mutating species huh? Species who share, for all intents and purposes, identical DNA segments, right down to ancient problems, disease particles and flaws. The number of chromosomes is even identical within primates and proto-primates.
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Rational Hypothesis: The supposedly obvious Design Perfection claimed by technically uneducated ID'rs is a vacuous and specious illusion, unsupportable when the evidence is presented to logical, rational observers.
Rational Hypothesis: The supposedly obvious Design Perfection claimed by technically uneducated ID'rs is a vacuous and specious illusion, unsupportable when the evidence is presented to logical, rational observers.
Remove your arbitrary adjective of perfection using human physical standards . . . and intelligent design remains as opposed to no design. If you do not see that our consciousness and its capabilities are a vast improvement (quantum leap) over merely physical alterations . . . you are in deliberate denial. You are the one afflicted with a vacuous and specious illusion.
Remove your arbitrary adjective of perfection using human physical standards . . . and intelligent design remains as opposed to no design. If you do not see that our consciousness and its capabilities are a vast improvement (quantum leap) over merely physical alterations . . . you are in deliberate denial. You are the one afflicted with a vacuous and specious illusion.
Not my point. You know darned well, my friend, exactly what the official Intelligent Design goal is. Intervention in Education. And they regularly tell us that we're the Perfect Outcome of a Perfect God, in His Perfect Image. That it is not possible for even a Godly-guided evolutionary* process; it was all "Insta-Poof", creating unique species and then their niche, instead of the obvious reverse.
Now please, Mystic... please! Don't tell me you're a dedicated ID'r. That'd shatter the trust and "faith" I have in you! "No True Intellectual" can really believe in that obviously intentional "dodge".
Hey; it's very nice and sunny here today. I think I"ll go out to my shop with Dottie The Wonder Cat and work on one of the custom rifles I'm building. Anyone care to invest $4200 for a really accurate rifle?
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(* you'll note in cases like this that I do not capitalize the word "evolution", thus meaning the general, dictionary definition of ongoing improvement...)
Not my point. You know darned well, my friend, exactly what the official Intelligent Design goal is. Intervention in Education. And they regularly tell us that we're the Perfect Outcome of a Perfect God, in His Perfect Image. That it is not possible for even a Godly-guided evolutionary* process; it was all "Insta-Poof", creating unique species and then their niche, instead of the obvious reverse.
Now please, Mystic... please! Don't tell me you're a dedicated ID'r. That'd shatter the trust and "faith" I have in you! "No True Intellectual" can really believe in that obviously intentional "dodge".
ID as currently constituted is a fraud of Creationists designed to do exactly what you suggest, rifleman. But GENERIC intelligent design has nothing to do with that movement and predates even Evolution theory.
Quote:
Hey; it's very nice and sunny here today. I think I"ll go out to my shop with Dottie The Wonder Cat and work on one of the custom rifles I'm building. Anyone care to invest $4200 for a really accurate rifle?
I would love one . . . but as a gift, old friend . . . he, he. Be well, Mystic.
Not my point. You know darned well, my friend, exactly what the official Intelligent Design goal is. Intervention in Education. And they regularly tell us that we're the Perfect Outcome of a Perfect God, in His Perfect Image. That it is not possible for even a Godly-guided evolutionary* process; it was all "Insta-Poof", creating unique species and then their niche, instead of the obvious reverse.
Now please, Mystic... please! Don't tell me you're a dedicated ID'r. That'd shatter the trust and "faith" I have in you! "No True Intellectual" can really believe in that obviously intentional "dodge".
Hey; it's very nice and sunny here today. I think I"ll go out to my shop with Dottie The Wonder Cat and work on one of the custom rifles I'm building. Anyone care to invest $4200 for a really accurate rifle?
________________________________________
(* you'll note in cases like this that I do not capitalize the word "evolution", thus meaning the general, dictionary definition of ongoing improvement...)
ID, from the standpoint of my view--a "Source God Created Universe" perspective--is not how it would probably seem to be.
God...being as capable an entity as He is...didn't have to "think about" creating the universe beyond that He "decided" to do it. Much like when we reach for something...we have the thought of our intention to reach for it...but the thought doesn't extend into the physical process of the actual movement...that happens quite unconsciously...even though there is quite an involved process occurring in our brain and body to make it happen...because such is the advancement of our abilities.
Gods "design" of the universe was the same kind of thing. Doing it, was for God, the same kind of "no-big-deal" it is for you to do a task that is simple for you to do...once you take it to the point of the "intention & decision" to do it...it's pretty much a wrap...from there you just, "do it".
So, though it is beyond our comprehension that creating the universe could somehow be a "piece of cake"...such is the power of God.
Of course, what "I think", reflects nothing more than what God has "moved my heart" to know through intuition and perception.
I wish all here could really dig on MysticPhDs synthesis...it contains "Inspired And Enlightened Truth". There hasn't been a guy like him to come along since Kant. God speaks through him. His knowledge is Divinely inspired. Of that, I am convinced.
If God designed us all as independent, non-evolving, non-interacting species, separated by chemistry or magic from successfully mating, there are a few questions that need to be answered.
1. Why did He make our DNA near-identical? After all, this is a guy who created the entire universe with a snap of His fingers, more or less instantly, in all it's vast and varied glory. All those hugely different star systems and all the apparent Earthly organic variations.
2. But... with DNA genome mapping, we now find very minor specific differences, but also, for almost all of our biochemical systems, we're functionally, biochemically and even physically identical to some chimps and lemurs. An alternate "hypothesis" of Evolution would strongly suggest that we had a common proto-ancestor.
3. If we're original and unique designs, why do we carry bits of older species in our own genes, segments that are simply turned off. This has been uncovered and verified in the spectacular new science tool of DNA genome mapping, and as more and more species are mapped, the evidence just grows and grows exponentially.
4. Examples are the find just this last fall that chickens harbor the exact genomes for a long vertebrate tail, exactly of the type we find in dinosaurian proto-bird fossils. We also have now found, in those same chickens, turned-off genome segments that, when turned on, produce exact duplicates of carnivorous dinosaurian dentition (teeth).
5. What was God thinking here? Was He tired, or bored, or lazy or confused, and so just turned the Designer Dial a bit to add or turn off these obviously linked genes? The hypothesis by IDrs is that all God's designs are perfect as they are!
6. So, why do we then suffer from so many genetically caused mechanical failings, like lower back weaknesses, a bad drainage setup on our kidneys, and neck structural weakness that are all solved if we were to walk on all fours? Why do our digestive systems prefer a more ancient, omnivorous diet that works so well for our primate ancestors?
7. Why do we humans carry turned-off ancient viral DNA, similar or identical to that carried only in the DNA of modern primates, but not in that of hippos, lizards, etc.? Of course, obviously, this would be exactly the case if our direct co-ancestors also suffered from, and thus carried, these identical and persistent segments, once labelled as "junk" DNA.
(NOTE: it's to be anticipated that all the other previously labeled "junk" DNA, about 5% of the total of our genome, will shortly be linked to other early primate functionalities. Hard to ignore these findings.)
So why did God purposely place it all in there? Or perhaps it's just been passed on, reliably, over the generations, through the wonder of cell replication.
(NOTE: we now know that none of it is junk, but rather it all carries an evidentiary story, all unfolding as we apply the vast power of computer analysis to the once-daunting task of genome mapping.)
8. WE now know, again, from DNA studies in just the last 8 months, that the average number of mutations between a given single generation in humans is 175.
(NOTE: there are over 4 billion base pairs in the human genome, so this is hardly a significant number of mutations, but if it codes for the correct or incorrect "build" of your red blood cell walls, it can be significant!)
These then show up in the next generation, plus another 175. Those that are lethal often cause death or disease. Others can lead to unexpected changes in height, hair color, intelligence, number of internal nose hairs or whatever...
("Hmmm... No-one in our family history ever had red hair! I wonder how that happened! Isn't God wonderful?")
Others might improve something, like our immune system, and thus they add to our improving genome.
9. And so... we "transition" along, like all organisms. Oh, yeah, unless we can't evolve, and it's all an inviolate Godly design. But.. why then does He allow those mutations and improvements?
10. So, an Intelligent Designer produced hugely flawed and still-mutating species huh? Species who share, for all intents and purposes, identical DNA segments, right down to ancient problems, disease particles and flaws. The number of chromosomes is even identical within primates and proto-primates.
.
Shucks...I noticed something that started me to doubt all religions when I was in my early teens.
Every form of life on this planet which swims, creeps, crawls, walks or flies has a mouth at the front or top through which to ingest nutrition, a rectum at the bottom or rear through which to extrude waste and sexual organs located within a few centimeters of that rectum. The subtle effect of gravity across millions of years evolved to accomodate the flow of anything with weight from the top to the bottom. Everything alive has to eat and crap!! Sorry Christians...I know this kind of crude explanation of cold hard facts interferes with your total disregard for anything that isn't positive and godly.
What if evolution is simply a process of creation?
What if there is an end-point in the evolutionary process?
What if there is intervention that is not necessarily the handiwork of God?
Unlike other ancient religions that have man and woman appearing on the Earth fairly intact with no antecedents, I find the Sumerian writings rather interesting in the way they portray the "ascent" of mankind. Human beings were manufactured by their gods.
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,733,455 times
Reputation: 20050
nothing is perfect not even the word perfect is perfect, if there is a god and he made us well that would make god not perfect..!! we are far from perfect.. god must be scratching his head, saying what the hell did i create i think he's getting ready to erase the chalkboard
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Not the spiritual self, the physical one.
god must be scratching his head, saying what the hell did i create
i think he's getting ready to erase the chalkboard
