Disputing Deposit Deductions (apartments, lease, tenant, documentation)

[bobelok]

Hi, I'm new here but found you guys online and reading through this forum, sounds like you all are pretty knowledgeable about these sorts of things so I thought I'd ask.

My brothers just left an apartment they'd been living in for about 5 years. They cleaned everything, but as I work in a dorm, I went back and rechecked the place just to make sure (for reference, working in a dorm at a university we have several hundred people move out each year, and I have to check those rooms for cleanliness and damages). So I found a lot of things that I didn't think were up to par and spent a day deep cleaning, scrubbing, etc.

A week later we got a letter stating that of the $300 deposit, we would still be responsible for another $125 in damages. We live in Texas, so they sent a sort of itemized list:

Paiting/Texture/Holes: 195
Blinds (2): 100
Extermination: 55
General Cleaning: 75

My brothers never painted he walls. When they moved out, the only thing we did was paint over spackled nail holes. The walls were scrubbed and any marks that were there were cleaned away. The apt definitely needed a new paint job, but should we have to be responsible for that? Wouldn't that fall under normal wear and tear? Its not like I scrubbed so hard the walls changed colors or anything. Looking at the walls, you'd think it was just a normal wall with no outward signs of damage, etc.

For the blinds, there were definitely 2 broken by my brothers. We were told we could replace them, or the management could replace them for $50 a piece. We went out, found the exact same blinds, and replaced them for half the cost. Surely we can't be charged for this, right?

As for extermination, I'm not sure? I haven't found anything here mentioning it. My brothers said the management sent exterminators once a month, and would send a letter a few days prior to their visit. The letter stated that the tenants should clean up and allow the exterminators access. If the tenants did not allow the exterminators access to the apartment, then the tenants could be charged for another visit. My brothers always let the exterminators in. Therefore, this was always something that the management provided to the tenants without charging for, so is it suddenly ok for them to charge once the tenants have moved out?

Lastly, general cleaning- that place was clean. I seriously doubt that anyone would have to have gone in to clean it again. It was ready for another tenant. If they didn't specifically say they would hold a portion of the deposit as a cleaning fee, and the place was clean when we left it, then aren't we entitled to that part of the deposit back?

I have pictures of the new blinds, and every room and how clean they were when we left. I don't think we have any pictures of the apartment from move in, but as nothing was damaged/broken/missing hopefully that shouldn't make too much of a difference. My thoughts are that the place definitely had normal wear and tear after 5 years of living, but nothing about the place was not in a state to be ready for someone to move in immediately afterwards. Also, over the last few years the complex has been renovating the units and repainting, tiling the kitchens and bathrooms, and replacing carpet with wood laminate. My brother's unit was never touched while they lived there, but a few days after we received the letter we swung by to talk to the management. No one was there, so we drove by their old apartment to see what we could see from the windows. Looking in, the carpet had already been torn out, and the appliances were in the middle of the floor. The bathtub was also in one of the bedrooms. So it looks like they started rather quickly, and I feel there's a chance that no one ever actually looked through the place to see what damages there might have been. I feel like the company is attempting to charge my brothers for part of the renovation fee, even though they obviously shouldn't have to.

My brothers and I have gone over twice in the last week to try and speak to the management, but the office is always closed (granted we've gone in the late afternoon, so maybe they were out or left early). I'd like to send them a letter discussing these issues, but wanted to see what people here had to say. Thanks for any advice you can give!

[MrRational]

What's "right" is immaterial.

You'll have to file in Court to get the LL to 1) pay attention or 2) pay a refund.
The 5 year tenancy is the thing to focus on w/r/t condition.

Contact the local courts and the links above to local/state laws.

[thebunny]

I agree. Court, or the threat of court, may at the very least get them to agree not to ask for the additional $125. As for the $300, while I understand the principle of the whole thing, I would really consider the time and energy cost of the $300 and decide if it is worth it to fight it. The LL did what they were supposed to do in sending the itemized deductions, I am guessing they have a rationale for the charges, which may or may not prevail in court.

[PacificFlights]

1 The holes, were they on flat walls or textured walls? If textured, just spackling may not be good enough as many judges are skitish to tell a property owner that non-matching repiars are acceptable.

2. If the blinds matched and are the same, why are they charging you for it? If they are charging you for two blinds, ask for your replacment blinds back.

3. Exterminating may depend on state or local laws, but usually thats a landlord expense unles there is some infestation caused by the tenant.

4. general cleaning, ythat is open to so much interpretation that unless you can show some good documentation that the place was really clean, its one of those 50/50 chances of prevailing things.

The real issue is how much of the damage charges will be upheld to the LL and how much to you? Is it really worth the fight if there is some question over the level of clean and repairs and damages?

[bobelok]

Thank you guys for the input. To answer some questions:

Originally Posted by PacificFlights

1 The holes, were they on flat walls or textured walls? If textured, just spackling may not be good enough as many judges are skitish to tell a property owner that non-matching repiars are acceptable. The walls were flat, no texture. The spackle is flat. According to what I've read on-line in the last few days, small holes in walls are considered normal wear and tear and we could have just let them be (but I wanted the place to look as good as possible)

2. If the blinds matched and are the same, why are they charging you for it? If they are charging you for two blinds, ask for your replacment blinds back. Yes, same size, length, etc. I can't guarantee they were the exact same, but you wouldn't know it unless you had them side by side, I suppose. The new blinds even fit the brackets that were already on the wall.

3. Exterminating may depend on state or local laws, but usually thats a landlord expense unles there is some infestation caused by the tenant. My brothers lived there and never complained of pests. They said it wasn't an issue.

4. general cleaning, ythat is open to so much interpretation that unless you can show some good documentation that the place was really clean, its one of those 50/50 chances of prevailing things.

The real issue is how much of the damage charges will be upheld to the LL and how much to you? Is it really worth the fight if there is some question over the level of clean and repairs and damages?

I understand 'right' has nothing to do with it, but that sure is unfortunate. Reading this forum and others on-line, I sent a certified letter explaining our side and justifications for things such as the blinds. Maybe that will do something. While $300 may not be a lot to some, to us its significant enough that we feel we should try, especially since we believe we are not in the wrong here.

[PacificFlights]

As for the holes, if your state law states small pin holes are normal wear and tear, they are normal wear and tear and can not be listed as damages and you prevail. Problem is that you can negate that exclusion with a bad patch and paint job. If all you did was paint over the spacked nail holes and that can be clearly seen, the LL probably can charge that as damages. Sometimes leaving what the law says is normal wear and tear is better than tryingt o got hat extra step which caues a stumble.

As for the blinds, once again since your being charged for them, ask for your replacement ones back. Since they gave you option A or Option B, they can;t have both. They give you backt he blinds or they give you back the money.

[Lacerta]

My opinion, as a landlord:

2 and 3 should have been no charge to the tenant if the blinds were replaced with an acceptable replacement, and there was no existing bug problem.

1 and 4 are more questionable.

W/R/T holes, we actually have in our lease that "There will be no charge for a reasonable number of nail holes in walls (ie from hanging photos) AS LONG AS the tenant does NOT attempt repair. Shiny spots on the wall from attempted repairs will result in a charge to the tenant for each location." We put that in our lease because people never seem to do the repairs correctly, and OFTEN leave a shiny spot, or try to touch up the paint with the wrong paint and when it dries, you see little mismatched spots all over, or the paint has just faded to the point that the old paint doesn't match anymore, so you have to repaint entire walls.

W/R/T cleaning, $75 is a pretty low to average amount. I have found that most tenants leave a few hours of cleaning behind after they move out. 3-4 hours is pretty normal for things that get missed (esp. sides of the oven/range, light fixtures, door frames, blinds). However, since you check apartments for the college, I assume you knew to look at these items and did a better than average job. Although I have had people who clean houses for a living (had their own cleaning company) tell me a house was cleaned to be "move-in ready" and when we checked, it was a C+ at best. "Clean" is a subjective thing.

Personal opinion, I would probably try to settle somewhere in the middle. From my experience, the paint touchup could have been legit, and the cleaning could have been at least partly legit. Without having seen it, I just can't say for sure. But after 5 years, as a landlord, I would have chalked the paint up to wear and tear and just charged for any legitimate cleaning. See if they can contest the extermination and blinds charges and get the extra wiped out and possibly a little bit back, but I doubt they are going to get it all back.

[KonaKat]

Dirt and damage are not normal wear and tear. Any hole of any size in a wall is not normal wear and tear. but 5 years calls for some depreciation on the blinds at least even if you had not replaced them. pest control is usually only done at tenant expense if they find roaches or something in the unit, not "routine" pest control that it sounds like they were already doing. Unless this was in your lease as a move out condition.