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There have been a lot of messages about libraries in another thread. And rather than continuing to go OT in the other thread - I thought I'd start a new one. I'll try to respond to some of the messages in that other thread in this message - and others.
Anyway - like some messages here - this one made me hit the books a little this afternoon. Reading about libraries. And I drew some conclusions from my reading.
The first is that libraries these days - well they're not like the libraries I grew up with. Especially in terms of the functions they serve in different kinds of communities. For example - libraries in inner city areas with relatively large poor populations do all kinds of things we don't normally associate with libraries. Everything from giving working parents a safe place where their kids can go after school - to providing a venue where people can learn about or apply for various government programs - to giving the relatively small number of people in the US without computer access these days (who tend to be either poor or - more commonly - old) access to computers. The main reason some poor people who don't have computer access need computer access is because they're looking for jobs - and can only apply for jobs on line. Anyway - for a good discussion of an inner city library system today - what it is trying to be - and the challenges it faces - read this:
I'm not sure how relevant this is to anyone here. But feel free to comment if it's relevant. And if Clark Park reads this - perhaps he can comment on it - tell us what he thinks about it. Since he lives in Philadelphia now. When I was a kid - I used to go to the Philadelphia main library. To get away from my parents and read books. That is apparently a somewhat obsolete library function today .
I get the impression that most people here aren't younger and urban and poor. But kind of older and suburban and non-poor. So what do older people use libraries for? Now one of the main reasons cited in the Pew report for library use was computer access. Only about 20% of the people in the US don't use the internet these days:
There are 2 main reasons. Lack of access - and "can't figure it out". Although I haven't seen a breakdown of who falls into what categories - I think younger and poorer and rural people are in the "lack of access" category. In fact - there was a recent WSJ article about how McDonald's is doing good business in a lot of rural areas after 9 pm - because the local library (and its wifi) closes - and the local McDonald's (with its wifi) is still open. And kids need internet access to do their homework.
I suspect most older people fall into the "can't figure it out" (or "don't want to figure it out") category. So how do you feel about your local library system putting a lot of resources into computer systems - not computer systems designed to access books or the like - but computer systems designed to provide access to people who want internet access but can't afford it? If you live in a tony suburb like Edina - will you allow people from poor areas of Minneapolis into your libraries to use your computer systems to find jobs - or just kill time surfing worthless web sites?
As for the lending library aspect function of libraries - that is still important. But it seems to me that it's becoming a popularity contest. The libraries want customers - not necessarily educated customers. So they - like the mainstream media - give the public what it wants. "Fifty Shades of Gray":
FWIW - I looked at my local library on line system today. There are 116 people waiting on line to take out Fifty Shades of Gray (my county only has 100k people) - but all of the volumes of Churchill's WWII - no wait necessary. I encourage you to look up what the bestsellers are at your local library.
Note to Escort Rider here. I did look up WWII books on Kindle. There are 4500+ titles available. I don't know much about the area - so don't know the quality of the offerings. I do know that Churchill's epic multi-volume series is available - and cheaper in Kindle format than print format:
Plus - one thing that is nice on a Kindle - one can adjust things like type size to adjust for various eyesight deficiencies as one ages.
Anyway - this kind of dovetails with most peoples' reading habits IMO. If they read at all - they tend to read topical trash. Note that most literature classics - those off copyright - are free on a Kindle.
There are lots of other things libraries do now. They're "social centers" - places where people get their taxes done - where they have book club meetings - places where kids meet to play video games - all kinds of "useful" stuff like that. Note that I haven't - browsing through the offerings from any library - found one that offers kid courses/sessions in algebra - which kind of seems more important to me than video games. Especially considering this rather pathetic assessment of the state of student skills these days:
So - when I look at this - I think we should perhaps have public computer centers for people who need public access to computers (because they're poor or their access is difficult/impossible). And maybe we should have social centers to do things that have nothing to do with library functions. They'd be very cheap as opposed to trying to do all of these things in traditional library settings. Or does it just make seniors feel better to think they're going to a "library" to do something - as opposed to going to a "senior center"? As for all those people who want to read "Fifty Shades of Gray" - they can do it with their own money - not my tax dollars. Robyn
FWIW - I looked at my local library on line system today. There are 116 people waiting on line to take out Fifty Shades of Gray (my county only has 100k people) - but all of the volumes of Churchill's WWII - no wait necessary. I encourage you to look up what the bestsellers are at your local library.
Anyway - this kind of dovetails with most peoples' reading habits IMO. If they read at all - they tend to read topical trash.
As for all those people who want to read "Fifty Shades of Gray" - they can do it with their own money - not my tax dollars. Robyn
LOL. I have not read Fifty Shades of Gray and have no plan to read it in the near future. Not because it's "topical trash" (to be honest, I don't even know what the book is about until a few minutes ago) but because I still have about 300+ books I want to read this year and the next.
BTW, there are only 7 people waiting for Fifty Shades at Los Angeles Library and no waiting at NY Library (303 copies are free at the moment at NYPL.) I don't live in LA or NY, but I have access to both libraries, plus ~15 others. There is also no waiting at my county's network of libraries, with 5 copies available. Maybe there are fewer people who read topical trash than you think.
Last edited by Ol' Wanderer; 02-12-2013 at 04:57 PM..
When I was a kid - I used to go to the Philadelphia main library. To get away from my parents and read books. That is apparently a somewhat obsolete library function today .
Obsolete? Nope. If you look back on the posts in the other thread you see a lot of people talking about reading. I know I mentioned reading several times in my post. It's just that libraries have added many additional functions in addition to being a place to check out books and a place to read.
Regarding your concern about scholastic help, a quick google of my library shows we have math tutoring, SAT prep, classes to teach teens job skills, a few different programs for developing writing skills, ESL, classes on how to tutor younger kid in reading, history lectures (every month a different topic is the focus; in February, which is Black History Month, the lectures are all on black history) and quiet rooms reserved for doing homework. I imagine many libraries have similar programs.
Would a senior center be an ok substitute? Not for me. Senior Centers are great, but they only serve people who are 55+. Community centers could conceivably be a substitute, but those tend to be noisier places since they usually have gyms, climbing walls, and other activities that are more sports oriented and noisy.
I much prefer going to meetings and lectures held at the library, since the library does insist on a certain level of decorum and quiet (yes this includes the concerts and movies--the room where this is done has soundproofing and people attending must be quiet in the hallways). Therefore I prefer to live in a community that has a library, as well as a community center. Sometimes they have them side by side, and that works out well too. About 7 miles from me we have that combo and it works out well. But even when a community center is next door, I continue to use the library, since I do use the books and also enjoy reading there--as do many other people. Our library always has plenty of people sitting in the various chairs, reading away.
Last night I wrote a long post on the various things I do in libraries. I don't feel like rewriting it, so I guess I'll do a cut and paste (see next post).
This is a list from a long post I wrote last night:
FWIW, here are a few things I've used our library for recently:
--community meetings. Our library has 4 community rooms and they are constantly booked with programs. So what did I do there in the past week? Let's see. I went to toastmasters there on Tuesday. I went to a program on the Tuskegee Airman on Wednesday.
I also regularly go to concerts there and to a yoga class (it's free, as all programs at the library are--not the best yoga class but actually a good stretch if you also take a professionally taught class). I sometimes go to a group that has board games out, for whomever wants to drop by and play.
If I'm babysitting, I often take the kids to storytime at the library. There are also several arts and crafts programs for kids.
--CDs, movies, books. I'm a music fan, so I probably check out more CDs than anything else. Usually 10-20 a week. I like to peruse the movies and see what looks interesting. The library has an interesting assortment of things I can't get through Netflix, plus it's great to be able to get free movies when Netflix hasn't arrived yet.
When I'm in the mood for something to read, I like looking through the stacks of books, picking something up and reading it for an hour or so before deciding if I want to check it out. The chairs are comfy and it's a very pleasant place to read. If I'm working on a project at home I'll check out a whole bunch of books to get ideas. My most recent project was reconfiguring the master closet, and I checked out 3 different books on closet design just to see if any photos or ideas might inspire me. I also belong to a book club at the library, and check out the various novels we read for that.
--Reference materials. They have all sorts of reference materials. Sure, some of the things I get at the reference desk are things I could find online, but a lot of times I'd rather ask Marty the reference librarian because he's also an amazing resource of information and knows all kinds of interesting places to get the info I need.
--Art gallery. Local artists display their works. I enjoy seeing them, especially when it's a show featuring work by friends and neighbors. Sure, I can also go into a local coffee shop and see works by local artists, but the library displays are bigger, the pieces are displayed together (instead of scattered throughout a coffee shop) and I don't have to buy a cup of coffee to look at them.
--Computers and copiers. When mine break down, it's good to know the library has computers and copiers I can use.
--I also just like the library simply as a place to be. I enjoy the aura of being in a place where lots of people are sitting in comfy chairs and reading. Ours is in located in Cascades Marketplace, a large shopping area--so what often happens is my husband and I go there together. He then runs whatever errands he wants to run--maybe he goes to Home Depot or maybe he gets his haircut-- and I'll happily wait for him in the library, reading through old issues of The Smithsonian or whatever else catches my eye.
This post is in response to the question "As for newspapers - which do you read on a regular basis?"
Depends on what day it is-- I like to mix it up. I usually read the Wall Street Journal and local community papers. I'm sometimes look through newspapers for cities where my friends live. Sometimes I like taking one particular event and seeing how a wide variety of publications cover it. Sometimes I read papers for the ads. For example, earlier today I was reading The Virginia Gazette and The Richmond Times Dispatch because I'm about to head down that way to do some house hunting and I wanted to look at the ads to see where to eat, as well as what else I might want to do while I'm there, and what the local stores are advertising these days.
I also read the calendar section for the Loudoun Times to see what events I might go to. By the way, although you can read some of the news stories for the Times online, they don't post all the stories and they also don't publish the entire calendar online. If you really want to know all the events going on you have to read the printed version. I also like reading various magazines, picking up whatever looks interesting on that particular day.
My local libray does have comuter access for the public and they keep addig mroe as need arises. Fro what i see its pretty much as i remmber it has a kid but with much more acess to books witht eh state system meanig they can get what you ant easier.One thing missing that Zi see is less student dong research because they have home access to computers.
<<When I go to any of the many public libraries around here (I have cards to all 4 as their holdings are so scanty) I see very few kids (maybe just a few preschoolers with parents), and absolutely no teens. The most activity I see in the smallest library is when the knitters get together, and they are all old. There is a monthly social that draws 40 to 70, and nearly all old. My nieces and nephews all have laptops and ipads, get everything they need for homework research off the Net. Remember when we had to trek down to the dusty stacks to find magazines and newspapers or use microfiche?? Remember trying to thread those d*** reading machines with the film? Kids nowadays get what they need within seconds. My sister, a children's librarian, says the demographic of people coming into her library in MD are preschoolers for story hour, oldsters like us, and flashers. Is it worth building multimillion dollar libraries with this kind of user demographic?...[/quote]
That's pretty much the way things are like where I live. I live in a fairly affluent suburb - and our local library is pretty much a "senior center". That older people who don't want to be associated with "senior centers" go to. Kids and the like don't use it at all. Robyn
This post is in response to the question "As for newspapers - which do you read on a regular basis?"
Depends on what day it is-- I like to mix it up. I usually read the Wall Street Journal...
Of the periodicals you mentioned - the only one that seems to cost a fair amount - or anything - is the WSJ. Can't you afford to pay for it on your own? And - if you can't - like if you're poor - why do you need it? Why should average taxpayers pay taxes for you so you can read the WSJ?
As for the other things you mentioned. Sounds like a bunch of social club stuff to me. Why should average taxpayers pay for those things? We like an exercise place. So we belong to our local Y. We pay money for it - like $650/year. It's a fair price IMO.
Perhaps libraries ought to have annual fees - like the Y? With lower to almost no fees for lower income people - like the Y? What do you think? Robyn
Of the periodicals you mentioned - the only one that seems to cost a fair amount - or anything - is the WSJ. Can't you afford to pay for it on your own? And - if you can't - like if you're poor - why do you need it? Why should average taxpayers pay taxes for you so you can read the WSJ?
As for the other things you mentioned. Sounds like a bunch of social club stuff to me. Why should average taxpayers pay for those things? We like an exercise place. So we belong to our local Y. We pay money for it - like $650/year. It's a fair price IMO.
Perhaps libraries ought to have annual fees - like the Y? With lower to almost no fees for lower income people - like the Y? What do you think? Robyn
I am going to pipe in here on this.
First libraries are a very good place for everyone of every age. It should be open for all. It should be able to bring in some income renting out the social space. I dont think that there should be a annual fee for those to use it. As I said they should be able to rent the space. There are many entrepenures that give freely to their library. Just my opinion.
about your local library system putting a lot of resources into computer systems - not computer systems designed to access books or the like - but computer systems designed to provide access to people who want internet access but can't afford it? If you live in a tony suburb like Edina - will you allow people from poor areas of Minneapolis into your libraries to use your computer systems to find jobs - or just kill time surfing worthless web sites?
FWIW - I looked at my local library on line system today. There are 116 people waiting on line to take out Fifty Shades of Gray (my county only has 100k people) - but all of the volumes of Churchill's WWII - no wait necessary. I encourage you to look up what the bestsellers are at your local library.
There are lots of other things libraries do now. They're "social centers" - places where people get their taxes done - where they have book club meetings - places where kids meet to play video games - all kinds of "useful" stuff like that. Note that I haven't - browsing through the offerings from any library - found one that offers kid courses/sessions in algebra - which kind of seems more important to me than video games. Especially considering this rather pathetic assessment of the state of student skills these days:
Edina is in Hennepin County which includes Minneapolis (all areas) and other suburbs. OK - so that means, if you live in Henn Cty - you can go to any library in the system (41 libraries) and if you have a library card, you can check out books, DVDs CDs etc... No library asks you to bring your W2s, tax statements or any other proof of income. BTW - Edina got so much harrassment to add low income housing that there is one complex for~~~low income people. There is also a large area of middle class people. We all get library cards if we are very good.
Now, Fifty Shades of Grey - curiosity got the best of me and I signed up for all 3 books - I was # 6XX for each one - it was a very popular book. Look at it this way - regardless of what people read, or how they choose to read it, it keeps people off the streets: less traffic, crime etc... This tax thing - get over it - we pay taxes for a lot of things that I don't use or agree with - that's life. You like Kindles - good for you. I like to hold the book - creature of habit I guess.
You won't change my mind and I won't change yours.
One more comment: people are getting more and more isolated with all the technology in their homes. Anything that gets people out and with others is a good thing (OK - don't start with the negative things that groups of people can do).
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Remember trying to thread those d*** reading machines with the film? Kids nowadays get what they need within seconds. My sister, a children's librarian, says the demographic of people coming into her library in MD are preschoolers for story hour, oldsters like us, and flashers. Is it worth building multimillion dollar libraries with this kind of user demographic?...[/quote]