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The problem with reform, is the debate is centered around ideology, and what one thinks is right or wrong. Rather than figuring out a way to work the numbers, that inflicts the least amount of pain on the populace as a whole.
It's really that simple, but so many folks want to obscure the numbers with ideology arguing to take increasing FICA/FIT (mostly seniors) or reducing SS payout increases (mostly not seniors) completely off the table - instead of considering both. The really discouraging posts are the ones who want to blame corporations, "the rich", spending on two wars, etc. as panaceas without ever even looking at the numbers...
Personally, I think a lot of these posters are the same people with different names.
Those arguing on this thread are NOT the same people with different screen names. If you really believe that, then report those who you believe are posting under more than one name to the mod, listing their duplicate names. Mod will check posting history and IPs. Yes, there people with more than one screen name on CD. Just not on this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwretired
I mean, really, what is to prevent them for establishing more than one name especially if they have more than one email account.
A report to the mod who will check their IP. It is a nuisance to be continually changing IPs through different proxy servers unless one is using more than one computer or is very techhie with a fast workaround. Yes, posters can get away with multiple screen names using the same IP, but sooner or later they can be caught. Posting style usually gives them away.
I honestly don't know how the chained CPI would work. But I did discover that chained CPI assumes that some items have zero price elasticity:
Zero elasticity of substitution within item categories is assumed for the small number of item categories in which the Laspeyres formula is used.
These items include:
22 Laspeyres items are Local telephone service, Rent, Housing at school, Owners’ equivalent rent, Electricity, Natural gas, Water and sewerage service, Physicians’ services, Dental services, Eyeglasses and eye care, Other medical professional service, Hospital services, Nursing homes and adult daycare, Cable television, and State and local vehicle registration, license, and motor vehicle property tax
Note that although this is a small number of items - they make up a pretty big % of the CPI. And I honestly don't think anyone knows how all these parts would work together under various inflation/deflation scenarios. We've had hedonic adjustments to the CPI for a long time now - and they don't seem much different to me than chained CPI.
BTW - to the person who mentioned way back that people earning < X had to pay part B premiums - below certain income levels - people qualify for Medicaid as well as Medicare. Robyn
So very true and truth be told we both know that SS for some doesn't even factor into their purchasing of most of the items in the CPI basket.
Those arguing on this thread are NOT the same people with different screen names. If you really believe that, then report those who you believe are posting under more than one name to the mod, listing their duplicate names. Mod will check posting history and IPs. Yes, there people with more than one screen name on CD. Just not on this thread.
A report to the mod who will check their IP. It is a nuisance to be continually changing IPs through different proxy servers unless one is using more than one computer or is very techhie with a fast workaround. Yes, posters can get away with multiple screen names using the same IP, but sooner or later they can be caught. Posting style usually gives them away.
Have you ever heard of people having more than one email address. What does that have to do with IP. Geez. You obviously think you know everything and that is one reason I avoid your rants.
Have you ever heard of people having more than one email address. What does that have to do with IP. Geez. You obviously think you know everything and that is one reason I avoid your rants.
Well, that's embarrassing!
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. Mark Twain
Don't fall into the pleasure of some to argue with them or try and prove a point. They will never agree with our point of view so why bother with them. State your view and be done with it. I wish they had a liked like FB so we could like what you say or not. To me that is better than trying to argue with people who may or may not be telling the truth. Personally, I think a lot of these posters are the same people with different names. I mean, really, what is to prevent them for establishing more than one name especially if they have more than one email account.
Whom are you addressing here? It seems you like to divide the City-Data Retirement Forum world into "us" and "them". No sense to argue, as " 'they' will never agree with 'our' point of view". Did it occur to you that whoever the "others" are may see your side exactly the same way?
What makes you think people are posting under different user names here? Why would it make more sense to assume that about those with whom you disagree than about those with whom you agree? Why should I not be suspicious that you are not only phwretired, but also someone else?
Ah, "they" are out to get us!! There is a communist under every bush!! Retirement Forum posters are cheating!! It's all a conspiracy, so don't bother to argue back!! Head for the hills!!
Whom are you addressing here? It seems you like to divide the City-Data Retirement Forum world into "us" and "them". No sense to argue, as " 'they' will never agree with 'our' point of view". Did it occur to you that whoever the "others" are may see your side exactly the same way?
What makes you think people are posting under different user names here? Why would it make more sense to assume that about those with whom you disagree than about those with whom you agree? Why should I not be suspicious that you are not only phwretired, but also someone else?
Ah, "they" are out to get us!! There is a communist under every bush!! Retirement Forum posters are cheating!! It's all a conspiracy, so don't bother to argue back!! Head for the hills!!
"Them" vs "us" approaches are not attractive and, thankfully, appear to be very rare on this forum.
I disagree, I think everyone should help. Really a cola for someone who makes under $800 per month is not going to cause that person starve. They are poor with or without that cola.
I simply don't understand your logic. While I do agree that it's nice to be in a position to say everyone should help, cutting more from folks who you indicate are poor with or without that cola has to hurt them. Add in annual increases to medicare premiums, and they are living on less and less.
I think many of us who are not in that position simply do not understand how any minimal impact can affect their lives.
Marc, I understand your thinking but I suspect many billionaires are eligible for very little in SS if any at all. Inherited money is not subject to the payroll tax nor are dividends, interest or capital gains the source of much of that wealth. While it is private information I would find it interesting to know what Gov Romneys SS benefit is or would be. My guess is probably very low as I doubt there are many years he had earned income worth very much. Walton kids probably don't qualify etc etc etc. So the dollar amount saved would be minimal in many cases. Teachers often wonder why they are always targeted in state and local budget cuts and the primary reason is that is usually the biggest area of the budget. So with SS it MIGHT be necessary to target a larger mass of the recipients to get the desired savings.
I would like to see some stats on how much in benefits billionaries actually collect. I've see Ken Langone multiple times on CNBC indicate they should cut benefits to the wealthy. I've heard him say on more than one occassion that they should take his and his wife's SS away and it wouldn't effect them in the least. He also said he's thankful he's made his wealth, and doesn't need these benefits.
Right now SS and medicare programs are broken, and our only fix is to to implement make mass cuts which only hurt the poor. Chained CPI hurts the poor not the wealthy. Cutting medicare paymenys to doctors hurt the poor, as the wealthy can afford to go to the best doctors. Raising medicare premiums and dedcutables hurts the poor not the wealthy. Our fix should be to rebuild these programs from the ground up.
In my humble opinion, if we want to fix these programs, we need to reform SS and medicare from social entitlement programs for all, to supplemental income programs for those who really need it. These programs should be viewed as insurance programs that we all pay into during our working years, and hopefully we won't need to collect. The analogy would be like auto or health insurance we all pay into every year, we don't want to get into an accident or get sick to get back some of what we paid in all those years, but they are there should we need them. I don't hear folks demanding that insurance companies give them money back for never having a claim, but yet everyone wants SS and medicare because they paid into it.
I don't know how the government go into the pension business, but it need to get out of it, and only provide benefits to those who really need them.
The real sticking point is what is the cutoff point where benefits would be provided provided? Whatever it is it should include all income to include tax free income.
Our nation can no longer afford to provide these benefits to all, but by reforming these programs we can afford to provide decent benefits to those who really need them.
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