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What almost none of you have addressed is the notion of "family," as utter crap in the larger sense. To me, "family," means, as an accident of biology, I share a few extra strands of DNA with a select few people than I do with anyone else, to which I reply, "so what?"
Family, as defined here, is bullsh*t to me, a lie, perpetrated by social engineers who didn't know what they were doing.
I'm glad my mother is dead. The earth is a little less toxic. When I got the news, I danced around the house singing, "Ding-dong, the witch is dead."
Not sorry.
The very depth of your unhappiness with your family tells me that your blood family is very important to you, else you would not have the deeply bitter feelings of betrayal your post shows.
Your case would be valid and well-made had your decision brought you peace. As is, it appears you're still massively hurting - and rightly so. If only you were my child, that I might wrap you in my arms and tell you how much I love you.
Is there anything we can say or do to ease your pain? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only parent on this forum who wishes you healing. You deserve so much better than what you were given. The only puny advice I can give is that you might offer forgiveness for your own sake, not for those whom you perceived have grievously offended you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tele-Cat
My sister and i briefly re-connected but after several attempts that culminated in a total blowout, we have re-estranged, and we will continue to be estranged.
What almost none of you have addressed is the notion of "family," as utter crap in the larger sense. To me, "family," means, as an accident of biology, I share a few extra strands of DNA with a select few people than I do with anyone else, to which I reply, "so what?"
I have male and female "chosen" brothers and sisters who have always been better to me than ANYONE in my biofam.
Family, as defined here, is bullsh*t to me, a lie, perpetrated by social engineers who didn't know what they were doing.
I'm glad my mother is dead. The earth is a little less toxic. When I got the news, I danced around the house singing, "Ding-dong, the witch is dead."
I am 59 years old. I am estranged from my entire blood family, except one cousin.
My parents were violent, abusive drunks, emotionally and in my father's case, sexually abusive. I quit talking to my father in 1980. We were done.
Not sorry.
The above was written by a victim of child abuse who is now an adult and estranged from her whole family. Its awful and sad. And I have tremendous empathy and understanding why this person holds her now deceased mother in such distain. I sure would!
....And the reason it was a post on a thread for Retirees who are estranged from their adult children
Maybe she is saying that the Retirees who are estranged may have been abusive parents? Yes! I think that does happen and then it is deserved. I get it.
Its, however, really upsetting when there is an adult child who was loved and nurtured. Whose parents simply tried to do their best and instill in the child the values they grew up with. Whose parents gave their heart, and tried their best...... that's where most of us are, and what confuses and haunts us.
Its, however, really upsetting when there is an adult child who was loved and nurtured. Whose parents simply tried to do their best and instill in the child the values they grew up with. Whose parents gave their heart, and tried their best...... that's where most of us are, and what confuses and haunts us.
If I am going to blame it on anything, in this instance, it is because the one thing the kid has still never learned is that parents are simply not perfect. They are only humans with flaws and usually most 'flawed' when they are young enough to become parents.
All anybody can do is their best. Seldom, if ever, is ones' best 'perfect'.
Unfortunately some people never mature enough in this respect to allow their parents to be transformed in their eyes to ordinary human beings.
The above was written by a victim of child abuse who is now an adult and estranged from her whole family. Its awful and sad. And I have tremendous empathy and understanding why this person holds her now deceased mother in such distain. I sure would!
....And the reason it was a post on a thread for Retirees who are estranged from their adult children
Maybe she is saying that the Retirees who are estranged may have been abusive parents? Yes! I think that does happen and then it is deserved. I get it.
Its, however, really upsetting when there is an adult child who was loved and nurtured. Whose parents simply tried to do their best and instill in the child the values they grew up with. Whose parents gave their heart, and tried their best...... that's where most of us are, and what confuses and haunts us.
It is obvious to me that this poster hurts terribly. But he or she is carrying a massive amount of bitterness. Carrying this around is a terrible burden which ultimately it is destructive to carries it. The victim becomes as horrible as the person who perpetrated the original horrors. While I believe in the restorative power of forgiveness, I would never demand it of someone who has experienced awful, horrible family abuse. But, the abuse survivor has to find a constructive way to think about the experience and to become better than the abusers.
I experienced verbal abuse as a young person. My situation is not comparable to this poster's so I don't want to equalize them. But I decided that the verbal abuse would stop with me. That's how I used my experience. I have forgiven my mother, who really did try, in her way, to make it up to me when I was an adult.
Pissing in the sea is not a constructive act. It will not bring relief from the extreme emotions.
I wish only the best to this poster. I truly sympathize.
Our son called tonight after 5 months of not talking. No apologies, no mention of past feuding or hurt feelings, he just called to chat like old days. I feel like a giant river has been crossed and I'm feeling good but I'm in uncharted territory. There are minefields in this new land on the other side of the river, hot topics that might or might never come up, but it's a new fresh start. Those mine fields... they'll just lay there. No need to detonate them. We've got the grandkids to talk about, travels and so much else. Should these topics come up, our mantra from here on out will be, "We're not going back there, there's plenty else we can talk about." When we hung up, I told him I love him, he said it back. I'm good. An apology would mean a rehashing, a going back.
One thing that helped me through the past five months was rereading Marianne Williamson's A Return To Love - A Course In Miracles. I kept wanting to feel justified, I thought I needed to hear an apology and then I reread her words and realized that the miracle I sought was in inside me. I stopped fighting and became the love I wanted from him. Immediately half the problem was solved. Would he have called anyways? Sure. But would I have been this receptive?
Our son called tonight after 5 months of not talking. No apologies, no mention of past feuding or hurt feelings, he just called to chat like old days. I feel like a giant river has been crossed and I'm feeling good but I'm in uncharted territory. There are minefields in this new land on the other side of the river, hot topics that might or might never come up, but it's a new fresh start. Those mine fields... they'll just lay there. No need to detonate them. We've got the grandkids to talk about, travels and so much else. Should these topics come up, our mantra from here on out will be, "We're not going back there, there's plenty else we can talk about." When we hung up, I told him I love him, he said it back. I'm good. An apology would mean a rehashing, a going back.
One thing that helped me through the past five months was rereading Marianne Williamson's A Return To Love - A Course In Miracles. I kept wanting to feel justified, I thought I needed to hear an apology and then I reread her words and realized that the miracle I sought was in inside me. I stopped fighting and became the love I wanted from him. Immediately half the problem was solved. Would he have called anyways? Sure. But would I have been this receptive?
I agree with the basic premise here, namely that when the past is emotionally loaded but when both parties seem willing to move on, it is best just to move on without seeking explanations and/or apologies from the other. Whether both parties think an apology is owed, or just one, asking for it is likely to create defensiveness and resentment. Expecting a person to say "I was wrong" is just not realistic most of the time, no matter how nice it would be if everybody could do that.
I was semi-estranged from my only sibling, a sister, for 30 or more years. We saw each other every couple of years, but things were strained and communication was minimal. That somehow seemed to dissipate about 10 years ago and now we positively enjoy each other's company. I am not about to dredge up the past. I am happy for this gift horse, which I am not about to look in the mouth. I would say that she is the one who changed, but perhaps she would say the same about me. It is a case where the wisest course is to let sleeping dogs lie.
Our son called tonight after 5 months of not talking. No apologies, no mention of past feuding or hurt feelings, he just called to chat like old days. I feel like a giant river has been crossed and I'm feeling good but I'm in uncharted territory. There are minefields in this new land on the other side of the river, hot topics that might or might never come up, but it's a new fresh start. Those mine fields... they'll just lay there. No need to detonate them. We've got the grandkids to talk about, travels and so much else. Should these topics come up, our mantra from here on out will be, "We're not going back there, there's plenty else we can talk about." When we hung up, I told him I love him, he said it back. I'm good. An apology would mean a rehashing, a going back.
One thing that helped me through the past five months was rereading Marianne Williamson's A Return To Love - A Course In Miracles. I kept wanting to feel justified, I thought I needed to hear an apology and then I reread her words and realized that the miracle I sought was in inside me. I stopped fighting and became the love I wanted from him. Immediately half the problem was solved. Would he have called anyways? Sure. But would I have been this receptive?
Congrats I know that must of thrilled you to hear his voice I agree with how you handled it and with Escort Rider's post too.
Our son called tonight after 5 months of not talking. No apologies, no mention of past feuding or hurt feelings, he just called to chat like old days. I feel like a giant river has been crossed and I'm feeling good but I'm in uncharted territory. There are minefields in this new land on the other side of the river, hot topics that might or might never come up, but it's a new fresh start. Those mine fields... they'll just lay there. No need to detonate them. We've got the grandkids to talk about, travels and so much else. Should these topics come up, our mantra from here on out will be, "We're not going back there, there's plenty else we can talk about." When we hung up, I told him I love him, he said it back. I'm good. An apology would mean a rehashing, a going back.
One thing that helped me through the past five months was rereading Marianne Williamson's A Return To Love - A Course In Miracles. I kept wanting to feel justified, I thought I needed to hear an apology and then I reread her words and realized that the miracle I sought was in inside me. I stopped fighting and became the love I wanted from him. Immediately half the problem was solved. Would he have called anyways? Sure. But would I have been this receptive?
Very wise of you - difficult to do - but very wise.
I agree with the basic premise here, namely that when the past is emotionally loaded but when both parties seem willing to move on, it is best just to move on without seeking explanations and/or apologies from the other. Whether both parties think an apology is owed, or just one, asking for it is likely to create defensiveness and resentment. Expecting a person to say "I was wrong" is just not realistic most of the time, no matter how nice it would be if everybody could do that.
I was semi-estranged from my only sibling, a sister, for 30 or more years. We saw each other every couple of years, but things were strained and communication was minimal. That somehow seemed to dissipate about 10 years ago and now we positively enjoy each other's company. I am not about to dredge up the past. I am happy for this gift horse, which I am not about to look in the mouth. I would say that she is the one who changed, but perhaps she would say the same about me. It is a case where the wisest course is to let sleeping dogs lie.
Your story has a lot of merit, and I can see how that is a wise approach to healing relationships.
For me personally, it is a little more complex. I've noticed that negative stuff that goes on between people, especially relatives, tends to resurface in patterns and that the one who concedes and lets bygones be bygones is usually (again, in my own experience) the one who is doing the work of letting go and forgiving. The other enjoys the benefits of that without doing any introspection to see her own behavior and where she was selfish or cruel.
It is true that an argument or difference has to end in order to move on, but unless some kind of acknowledgement of what happened and the part that both played in it occurs, the stage is set for potential reruns at later dates. The pattern resurfaces and the same people behave the same way and the one who was "wronged" or hurt, if he is the one who forgives and forgets the past, is the one who will more or less stay in that ongoing role.
Though I believe what I just said, I also appreciate your point f view.
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Agree - it's a minefield to rehash the past
