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i never said i wanted a subsidy , i said obama care does not allow one to retire any earlier. even with the subsidy the out of pocket can be devastating . unless you are fairly low income the insurance and deductable are actually more than most company plans.
company plans are determined by experience and location. obamacare is based on individual rates which were far far higher to start with thn company rates .
for most of us that do not earn near poverty level wages the employer insurance for a couple will still be cheaper.
Your posts are very brief and confusing. Finally you make your point, but we are talking about different things.
Of course health care is cheaper if you keep working for a generous employer that pays for your insurance. Of course most of us should keep working until we die to save the most money on health care! You are missing the point completely.
The point is that for people who want to retire early and can afford to do so, they now have options for their health coverage that are dramatically better then existed before. Individual health care insurance plans purchased privately in the free market in 2013 are so expensive for most in their 50's and 60's that it wasn't even possible to imagine. Or these plans refused to cover pre-existing conditions, so you didn't even have an option.... even if you were wealthy... or you could be risking too much. In 2014 via Obamacare, many may be able to consider purchasing an Individual plan for the first time. Yes, it is still not "cheap", but geez what the heck! It's health care! It should be your most valued purchase!
So what will happen, is that wealthy/financially secure people who want to retire early will be able to do so with fewer worries about health coverage. Actually, that bothers me a little.... do I want to be subsidizing health care for the rich to retire early? Not really.... But there are actually quite a few people of modest means in their 50's and 60's that may also consider retiring or at a minimum changing to part time work or they may even be struggling with no insurance because they cannot get a full time job in this economy at their age and can't find anyone to sell them affordable insurance. Obamacare may be life saving for some of them. I'm glad about that.
No question that with high incomes ACA isn't a good deal. In a very early posting I had suggested looking at your income (especially if a portion of it is in IRAs or 401Ks) and perhaps drop it for a couple of years (if possible) to take advantage of the subsidies. In short, maybe live slim for a short period and then at age 65, enroll in Medicare, increase your income. Or some other variation that might come to mind.
As with all things those thinking and planning will figure how to maximize their income without going over the ACA cliff if it isn't to their advantage. It is already a discussion topic.
With so much media and political rhetoric about 'government care, benefits, protection, employment, etc', people lose sight of the FACT that the government produces nothing, but, debt! The only thing Obamacare will do is add a layer of bureaucratic cost to America's healthcare 'overhead' ... and legislate an increased amount of 'stuff/services, etc' that some folks get "free", at the expense of others.
The ridiculously fearful 'sky is falling' dialog that accompanied the recent 'partial, temporary government shutdown' ... bore strong witness to how widespread the incredibly blind notion that 'the government takes care of us really is!'. As Thomas Jefferson said, "May God protect us from politicians who take our money under the pretense of taking care of us" .... and, I might add, from 'sound byte junkies' who vote for these politicians and their wasteful, "free" programs!
In many cases employees have no choice. Call it early retirement if you wish. Nonetheless, it really is in many cases dismal. That's the way it is in the work world today. I found myself in that category several years ago. Fortunately, for me, things worked out far better than I expected at the time.
I do suspect that a lot of people in that situation (and there are many) will gladly sign up for ACA. And there are others who might have sufficient resources (IRA, 401k) who will sign up also. Forget retiree insurance (that is last century thinking).
Seems to be getting the boot just like pensions did.
Your posts are very brief and confusing. Finally you make your point, but we are talking about different things.
Of course health care is cheaper if you keep working for a generous employer that pays for your insurance. Of course most of us should keep working until we die to save the most money on health care! You are missing the point completely.
The point is that for people who want to retire early and can afford to do so, they now have options for their health coverage that are dramatically better then existed before. Individual health care insurance plans purchased privately in the free market in 2013 are so expensive for most in their 50's and 60's that it wasn't even possible to imagine. Or these plans refused to cover pre-existing conditions, so you didn't even have an option.... even if you were wealthy... or you could be risking too much. In 2014 via Obamacare, many may be able to consider purchasing an Individual plan for the first time. Yes, it is still not "cheap", but geez what the heck! It's health care! It should be your most valued purchase!
So what will happen, is that wealthy/financially secure people who want to retire early will be able to do so with fewer worries about health coverage. Actually, that bothers me a little.... do I want to be subsidizing health care for the rich to retire early? Not really.... But there are actually quite a few people of modest means in their 50's and 60's that may also consider retiring or at a minimum changing to part time work or they may even be struggling with no insurance because they cannot get a full time job in this economy at their age and can't find anyone to sell them affordable insurance. Obamacare may be life saving for some of them. I'm glad about that.
In theory your reasoning is correct. There are articles all over the internet that reflect that thinking.
But in practice it is not the way things work out.
First off any figures i used figured no employer contribution.
There really are very few individual policies written pre obama care. . In the entire state of ny i think 15000 individual policies were written. That is out of millions and millions.
That means that pre obama care you were either insured through the work place or uninsured.
If you were insured through the work place you have two years of cobra you could go on. That would at least get you from 62 to 64. You would have only 1 year to deal with. Or go from cobra at 63 right to medicare.
Unless you get get enough subsidies to offset the higher costs the cobra will be the cheapest option.
If you were uninsured logic says you most likely couldn't afford to retire early with or without obama care.
In fact logic says now that you have to have insurance and didn't before you have even less to retire on.
Obama care hurt many potential retirees who had only catastrophic medical insurance. It was cheap,it was affordable and it worked into the budget they had.
Well those policies no longer exist under obamacare and now they are forced into full coverage policies for many times the price.
To tell you the truth we were looking at a blue cross blue shield plan that covered the big stuff but not everything.
We were going to use that from 62-65. Well that cheap option is gone.
Now the plan is to work part time another year. I will be 63. Then cobra for two years is the cheapest option.
While many retiree budgets allowed retiring before with a catastrophic plan the extra couple of hundred a month really hurts them.
Once again everything we do has a ramification to it. While these articles that are pro obama care as a benefit to early retirees look at it in theory the flip side is there are negatives that hurt early retirees as well.
Last edited by mathjak107; 11-10-2013 at 01:44 PM..
I detect that some people here are smoking crack...and are totally out-of-their-minds!
I frankly do not understand those who accuse others having different opinions of being crazy or on drugs, rather than presenting any valid points. In regard to the ACA motivating earlier retirement for workers, perhaps those of us who believe it will encourage early retirement are not smoking crack--maybe it is possible you just have a very narrow minded view of the future or are letting your opinion of the president influence your thinking.
In theory your reasoning is correct. There are articles all over the internet that reflect that thinking.
But in practice it is not the way things work out.
First off any figures i used figured no employer contribution.
There really are very few individual policies written pre obama care. . In the entire state of ny i think 15000 individual policies were written. That is out of millions and millions.
That means that pre obama care you were either insured through the work place or uninsured.
If you were insured through the work place you have two years of cobra you could go on. That would at least get you from 62 to 64. You would have only 1 year to deal with. Or go from cobra at 63 right to medicare.
Unless you get get enough subsidies to offset the higher costs the cobra will be the cheapest option.
If you were uninsured logic says you most likely couldn't afford to retire early with or without obama care.
In fact logic says now that you have to have insurance and didn't before you have even less to retire on.
Obama care hurt many potential retirees who had only catastrophic medical insurance. It was cheap,it was affordable and it worked into the budget they had.
Well those policies no longer exist under obamacare and now they are forced into full coverage policies for many times the price.
To tell you the truth we were looking at a blue cross blue shield plan that covered the big stuff but not everything.
We were going to use that from 62-65. Well that cheap option is gone.
Now the plan is to work part time another year. I will be 63. Then cobra for two years is the cheapest option.
While many retiree budgets allowed retiring before with a catastrophic plan the extra couple of hundred a month really hurts them.
Once again everything we do has a ramification to it. While these articles that are pro obama care as a benefit to early retirees look at it in theory the flip side is there are negatives that hurt early retirees as well.
You only looked at your state.
Nationwide only 44.6% have employer based insurance. And the trend is downward.
In addition to the 44% figure, your gallup poll says 25% of americans have government insurance in one form or another so now we are at almost 70% of americans have some form of insurance either through an employer or the gov't.
And how many of the rest have no insurance? Most of the rest i would bet as only 11% in your poll have insurance on their own .
Cobra would cover 2 years of early retirement in all but 11% of the cases as those folks have no insurance. Odds are they wouldn't even bother with insurance if they retired either . But now they are forced to buy it.
But lets be realistic how many people do you know are financially able to retire by choice and had no health insurance.
I have to say i know zero like that and i come into contact with loads of pre early retirees on the forums i frequent.
Remember we are talking within the scope of the threads question.
We are not discussing those forced into it.
Last edited by mathjak107; 11-10-2013 at 02:31 PM..
But lets be realistic how many people do you know are financially able to retire by choice and had no health insurance.
We are not discussing those forced into it.
You still don't get it.
In most of the private employer world retiree insurance is LOOOOOOOOOOOONG GOOOOOOOOOOOONE.
It doesn't mater how you retire with a private company, forced or otherwise, you almost always DO NOT get retiree insurance.
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