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Update: A few weeks ago, and then again two days ago, I emailed "Friend" B some info potentially useful to her regarding committee work (I am no longer on the committee as of last year; I actually left partly becaue of her). No answer. After both of them snubbing me the other day in the theater (or did I them? sometimes it's hard to tell, as they didn't talk to me nor I to them, other than to greet them pleasantly before they moved their seats), I guess I know what's probably going on. Interesting, because I've been so supportive of B, helping her with her online dating profile, giving her useful committee ideas, etc., all in the spirit of just being nice. Though I can no longer trust either of them, it galls me to think that A is presenting only her side of the story, making herself look good as always.
There is such a thing as over-thinking and over-analyzing. In my opinion there has been a lot of that in this thread. Perhaps we males are simplistic about such things. I have a female friend about my age who seems to have terminated our friendship - no longer answers my phone messages or emails. But I refuse to stew about it and spend time analyzing it. I regret it, but it will be up to her. She will either resume our previous pattern of friendly communication or she won't. And no, I wasn't rude to her. (Also, I know she is not deathly ill or out of town, as I ran into her at a concert recently. We had a pleasant enough conversation.)
And again no, asking her about it is out of the question. I learned in childhood and adolescence and young adulthood that getting women to be honest and straightforward about such things is usually not going to happen. Not that males are always emotionally honest either, of course.
So I can re-cast my opinion to make it gender-neutral; I am straightforward and uncomplicated but I have found that many people are not. I abhor BS and feel compelled to rebut it whenever I encounter it, which is one reason why I do not engage in those "Let's analyze our friendship and what is going wrong" conversations. That is, that type of conversation too often turns out to be frustrating to me with no insight gained.
My compulsion to call out BS did not exactly endear me to bosses and supervisors during my working career, and it has certainly not endeared me to a number of City-Data posters either!
I just read almost all the pages. I am sorry all this has happened to you.
I think I was beyond my years when I was a wee girl in primary school (I think it was 2nd grade). I remember a bunch of girls deciding whether or not to let this other girl sit at their lunch table. I didn't get it then, and I don't get it now. I think that moment in time really was a defining moment for me.
In my older years (I just turned 57) I have less tolerance for that kind of behavior. There are times I wish I had closer friends, then I spend a day with someone and I realize I like my own company better
I was nine, in fourth grade, when I first saw this kind of thing from other girls and it was directed at ME! Up until then I had never had anyone really dislike me and I remember wondering why. It was just one girl and all these years later I still remember her name, what she looked like and where she lived...the same trailer park I did. I remember going home and telling my mom how she'd been treating me, and encouraging other girls to treat me, and asked HER why. Bless my mom she told me that this girl was simply jealous, there was nothing 'wrong' with me and I probably had a lot more friends than she did. Another thing I remember about this girl was that she actually STABBED another little girl in the side with a crochet hook! Obviously not mentally healthy, I'd say. I also witnessed her stealing things in the girls gym locker room. At age nine I learned that I didn't care one whit what she thought about me anymore. I've actually wondered, over the years, whatever happened to her. It obviously made a BIG impression on me to remember it that well after 63 years.
I like my own company a lot too. Maybe too much but I don't miss having a 'social life'. I'm old, I'm tired and probably lazy as well, but I'm happy so what else matters? I get my 'daily dose' of people at work all day...customers, co workers, etc. and that's enough for me. There are times I wish I had at least one friend to pal around with but how often would I want to? Just like I really enjoy road trips and vacations by myself. Every time I take someone with me I'm reminded why!
Update: A few weeks ago, and then again two days ago, I emailed "Friend" B some info potentially useful to her regarding committee work (I am no longer on the committee as of last year; I actually left partly becaue of her). No answer. After both of them snubbing me the other day in the theater (or did I them? sometimes it's hard to tell, as they didn't talk to me nor I to them, other than to greet them pleasantly before they moved their seats), I guess I know what's probably going on. Interesting, because I've been so supportive of B, helping her with her online dating profile, giving her useful committee ideas, etc., all in the spirit of just being nice. Though I can no longer trust either ofthem, it galls me to think that A is presenting only her side of the story, making herself look good as always.
That, right there, is what's really hardest to get over. We all know that there are two sides to every story and when we know, for sure, only one side is being heard it hits us as just UNFAIR. However, we have to eventually, just not care anymore. There's nothing we can do about it and, while we absolutely hate the idea of being shown in a terrible light, we just have to accept that that's how it is sometimes. It's partly ego too. BTDT and got over it. This too shall pass, as they say. YOU know how you feel and what happened and that will just have to be enough. You never know but what someday, down the road, the opportunity just might present itself. That's happened to me too and afterward I wondered why I felt it was so important anyway. It was like, "Okay, that's water under the bridge. Carry on".
There is such a thing as over-thinking and over-analyzing. In my opinion there has been a lot of that in this thread. Perhaps we males are simplistic about such things. I have a female friend about my age who seems to have terminated our friendship - no longer answers my phone messages or emails. But I refuse to stew about it and spend time analyzing it. I regret it, but it will be up to her. She will either resume our previous pattern of friendly communication or she won't. And no, I wasn't rude to her. (Also, I know she is not deathly ill or out of town, as I ran into her at a concert recently. We had a pleasant enough conversation.)
And again no, asking her about it is out of the question. I learned in childhood and adolescence and young adulthood that getting women to be honest and straightforward about such things is usually not going to happen. Not that males are always emotionally honest either, of course.
So I can re-cast my opinion to make it gender-neutral; I am straightforward and uncomplicated but I have found that many people are not. I abhor BS and feel compelled to rebut it whenever I encounter it, which is one reason why I do not engage in those "Let's analyze our friendship and what is going wrong" conversations. That is, that type of conversation too often turns out to be frustrating to me with no insight gained.
My compulsion to call out BS did not exactly endear me to bosses and supervisors during my working career, and it has certainly not endeared me to a number of City-Data posters either!
I don't know about the world of men and men's friendships and how they compare with friendships among women. I suspect that women need "best" friends more than men do (maybe so we can talk about men, lol). We can talk with each other about our weaknesses and failings, moan and groan about things over drinks, and celebrate even the smallest of triumphs in person or over the phone. Best friends can talk for hours.
Perhaps women tend to gossip more. I don't know why I feel so uncomfortable about gossip (with said friend, it's usually under the guise of feeling sorry for, or concerned about, the other) but it really, really drains me. Maybe I feared being gossiped about by said (ex) friend. In fairness, she is not a backstabber, but a gossiper about everyone she knows who could improve their lives and their health if they just listened to her.
One of the reasons my relationship with my SO has revived (and survived 45 years) is that we always discussed bigger ideas with each other, starting in our college years. Lively discussions around art, film, music, literature, philosophy, cultural arguments (sometimes into the wee hours of the morning) is the stuff that binds us. We never gossip, interestingly. In earlier years we had terrible differences around mundane everyday things, but even if we disagreed on the higher stuff we found it stimulating and challenging.
Not that friendships have to be that way. But something more than petty stuff has to be there, for me. I forgive a lot (I'm actually harder on myself than on others). But I hate getting brought down into the quagmire.
I spent years doing that too, pushing myself to get outside my comfort zone. Although people at work would say I am outgoing (ha!), I really am not. I am very much an introvert. I am somewhat of a loner, but realize I must socialize sometimes so I will not become a hermit!
All my life I've been outgoing, friendly, social and involved in lots of things. The older I get though I've changed. I'd say, at this point in my life I'm probably a perfect 50/50 split between outgoing and introvert. Nobody who knows me IRL would ever think of me as being an introvert but some do think I've become a hermit. My job gets my ALL. It is exhausting to be 'up', smiley, friendly, efficient, organized and likeable to every person you come in contact with all day, every day. So I really enjoy the time I spend at home, by myself, doing just what I want to do. In peace and quiet.
One of my grandsons got married a month ago. I helped them celebrate for three days. Proved I'm not really anti-social anyway. lol
Escort, you make some good points. I must admit I enjoy analyzing and thinking about human interaction; it's the psych major in me. And I hope that by doing so, I increase my understanding of human relations. It's why I even think a little gossip is okay (or at least, that's how I justify it!).
Over a year ago, a very good friend cut off contact with me for no reason. I anguished about it, even posting here on CD. I knew that I had done nothing and that it had to have been just her---she never had been very motivated to put forth much effort into our relationship (or any others). After a year of not hearing from her, she e-mailed me to wish me a happy birthday. I e-mailed her back to thank her (this was huge for me, not holding a grudge). She admitted I had done nothing wrong---that she just stopped interacting with everyone.
So now I have this friend back in my life---but it turns out she is borderline crazy and very self-centered! For the past year, she has been a total hypochondriac, saying she was weak, in pain, anxious, and so on. She's improving a little bit, but the moral of the story is that here I was so wishing she hadn't cut off contact and that we were still friends----but it turns out that since she was so capable of cutting me off just like that without any concern for my feelings means that she is the type of people who isn't concerned with anyone else's feelings, even a good friend.
So instead of being upset about it, I should have just quickly come to the conclusion that I didn't want or need someone who could treat me so badly. And I've stopped trying to collect friends by maintaining relationships that no longer work.
My husband and I were friends with another couple and doing well with them. I sent an e-mail trying to get together with them and got the kiss-off: "We would love to see you, but we like doing stuff on a whim and don't like to plan ahead." I e-mailed her back, saying we did want to maintain our friendship with them, but that we are planners who like to live a full life and have stuff to do, so we typically have plans weeks in advance. I encouraged her to contact us if they wanted to get together last minute but noted that chances are that we would be already booked. Never heard from her. And I'm okay with that. No anguishing over this. I know DH and I haven't changed---it's her/him who has, so be it.
It is so liberating to just let relationships go that aren't working! And to stop taking stuff personally. There's a book called The Four Agreements by Ruiz that says:
"2. Don’t Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering."
It is so liberating to just let relationships go that aren't working! And to stop taking stuff personally. There's a book called The Four Agreements by Ruiz that says:
"2. Don’t Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering."
I really like the above. It is an ideal to strive for - sounds kind of Buddhist to me. However, the closer we have been to someone and/or the more we respect we have for that person, the more a "betrayal" will sting and disappoint. Only the most mature and the wisest will be able to avoid "needless suffering" almost completely. But even the rest of us can minimize it.
My job gets my ALL. It is exhausting to be 'up', smiley, friendly, efficient, organized and likeable to every person you come in contact with all day, every day. So I really enjoy the time I spend at home, by myself, doing just what I want to do. In peace and quiet.
I get you! I am in Customer Service, and yes--my job gets my all too! I am all that "smiley, friendly, efficient, organized and likeable to every person I come in contact with all day, every day. At the end of the day I love my peace and quiet too!
And I've stopped trying to collect friends by maintaining relationships that no longer work.
Me too!
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