Income Inequality and Senior Citizens (social security, state, relative, retired)
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Seems as if the wealth/income gap is a source of much discussion in this forum without actually being mentioned or discussed directly. Perhaps it is why so many threads become contentious as topics get discussed that play out differently across income groups. There are not very many opportunities at redo's once we hit our sixties. Relationships and marriage is one area we can have redo's. Regardless of luck, fate, choices or whatever by the time we hit our sixties much of our future financial life is on a path with limited ability to change on our own. Many of the changes that do occur will be negative and a result of fate and or decisions that didn't work out. Yes some will inherit and some will marry into wealth however most won't. Our choices and behavior and lifestyles in retirement are often financially driven and personal, yet we have a knack for making value judgments about others choices. Even the adaptation of technology can be considered a waste of money and not needed by some. Yes seniors as one thread noted are a 7.1 Trillion dollar market but is that wealth distributed equally? No! Are all seniors equal in opportunity/targeting? You decide! Even senior housing choices vary by income level and the ability to transplant can often be income driven and difficult to discuss if ignored.
Income inequality is a given for any age group, so I'm not sure what the point is that you're driving at.
On CD I have not seen contentiousness around income inequality per se. I have seen a lot of condescension from those who have considerable amount of retirement wealth to those who have less, and I agree with the response of in_newengland, above. Here we go again, those who are not wealthy did drugs, abused their bodies, and did not plan. Come on.
A good example is my own family, and my 7 siblings. All of us expect to get social security, but some never made a lot of money and will have minimal benefits. One younger brother in the CA retirement system retired already at age 56 and is now looking for another job to supplement but can manage on that until SS kicks in. I will work to 68 or 70 and have a decent pension, and a younger sister will have a good pension when she retires but like me, enjoys her work and will likely stay to 67. The other 4 (1 is 64, others late 50s now) will have SS only, and have to work as long as they are able to make it or move to much lower cost areas. Three of those do not own a house to sell and take out the equity, and none of those 4 has any children to help them out in their old age. I'm the only one that has longterm care insurance.
My family is also an example of this. Two of us completed college, have good long term jobs, paid off homes, and are scheduled to retire in the next few years in our 60's with good pensions, investments, and health insurance. My older sister got a clerical job with the state government right out of high school and also retired with a pension and some limited investments and a paid off condo - not a great amount of money but enough. My younger sister is a different story as she will have to work as long as she can and survive on SS. She was never interested in getting an education or saving money but partied a lot but luckily she is in good health and has a daughter that may be able to help her out. I don't have much sympathy for her.
But then there are my other two brothers. One had a bad case of a form of rheumatoid arthritis that started in his teens and became progressively worse as he aged and made it difficult for him to work. He died of cancer in his early 40's but if he had lived, I am sure that he would be on disability today with limited resources. My other brother has battled a weight problem since childhood and is now severely obese. He has an accounting degree but has been laid off several times as he works in the oil and gas related industries with large company downsizes every few years. He lost his first retirement savings with Enron. Now he has been laid off again at age 61 and unable to find another job due to his age and weight so is trying to survive on early SS with some investments. You can argue that he should have made different career choices and overcome his weight issues but I know he has worked hard and done the best he can. So I do think there are many people who retire without enough money due to unfortunate circumstances but I also believe that many are in that situation due to lack of planning and hard work. But as has been pointed out before, government programs are available to assist these people and do not differentiate between the deserving and the undeserving.
Income inequality is a given for any age group, so I'm not sure what the point is that you're driving at.
On CD I have not seen contentiousness around income inequality per se. I have seen a lot of condescension from those who have considerable amount of retirement wealth to those who have less, and I agree with the response of in_newengland, above. Here we go again, those who are not wealthy did drugs, abused their bodies, and did not plan. Come on.
I've seen the contentiousness. Not here, but it's the reason I no longer go to the SF board, and why I feel there is a greater gap between the haves and the have nots and it's going to get uglier.
The internet forum system in general seems rife with liars and nastiness. Having seen a whole big catfish scheme from the sides (I didn't fall in the target category, so I wasn't targeted) I now take what people say online with a grain of salt. All those rich people who are trying to make everyone feel awful about not saving and working hard?
C'mon -- you really think rich people play on the internet that way? They are on Amazon buying stuff for their next trip they bought with points from buying stuff on amazon for their last trip....
As to the drugs and alcohol subject. I have five life long friends .Three in their 20's drank pretty heavy; after work some but mostly on weekends. They all held good jobs. Basically on a hunting trip when they reached 30 over a camp fire; all agreed to stop. They did and are in 60's now. I saw the change that made in their lives and financial success. So yes I think drugs and alcohol where and still are a huge factor facing many that will effect their lives in large ways if not stopped early. Just on a side ;the discussion started about a high school friend who died a month before in a single car accident who was DUI at time.
I've seen the contentiousness. Not here, but it's the reason I no longer go to the SF board, and why I feel there is a greater gap between the haves and the have nots and it's going to get uglier.
The internet forum system in general seems rife with liars and nastiness. Having seen a whole big catfish scheme from the sides (I didn't fall in the target category, so I wasn't targeted) I now take what people say online with a grain of salt. All those rich people who are trying to make everyone feel awful about not saving and working hard?
C'mon -- you really think rich people play on the internet that way? They are on Amazon buying stuff for their next trip they bought with points from buying stuff on amazon for their last trip....
Isn' the Amazon rewards card just as you described. A circle of continuous Amazon buying. I confess I am addicted.
Income inequality is a given for any age group, so I'm not sure what the point is that you're driving at.
On CD I have not seen contentiousness around income inequality per se. I have seen a lot of condescension from those who have considerable amount of retirement wealth to those who have less, and I agree with the response of in_newengland, above. Here we go again, those who are not wealthy did drugs, abused their bodies, and did not plan. Come on.
Not driving at any point, just allowing a discussion of the topic. Income inequality is much in the news and with all of the upcoming focus on the budget and so many programs impacting seniors up for discussion it just might be reasonable that means testing and the inequality of resources negatively impacting the well being of seniors might be a hot topic. Just consider, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid(nursing home care) etc at the federal level and all of the budget related items at the state and local level that are oriented towards lower income seniors. Tax dollars, capital flight etc etc etc. If a state has higher income seniors transplanting elsewhere leaving that state with a higher percentage of lower income seniors the stress on the tax base could reach a critical mass. Consider Illinois for instance. The question in this forum might not be as much about would you pick up the slack but what do you think of the reality of income security or insecurity within the ranks of the current and future retired. You know the articles. Offering active 55 housing with a cost in the 300K plus range is a local/state government way to induce the more affluent seniors who need less in the way of services to that city/county etc. Local tax/spending policy etc can be used to induce one to stay and another to not come. At some point in our society we need to hear the full range of voices.
I think the disconnect comes in the way people who fall short in retirement are viewed. Like a couple of posters have mentioned, they feel alcohol and drugs is a large factor in this segment of the population. I think this is where the meeting of the mind of two schools of thought part. Some people tend to group all people together who didn't make to the finish line financially prepared for retirement, and blame them all for their lack of effort.
Others agree we have alcoholics, drug attics, and just plain irresponsible behavior that results in an eventual bad end. But also recognize that we have people of limited abilities and there fore only are able to obtain low paying jobs. I know we have a lot of single moms raising kids by themselves without the benefit of a degree and work in lower paying jobs. They are your hairdressers, your waitresses, your house cleaners, your secretaries, your grocery store checker, your cna's, etc., etc. There are no 401K's for these people. There for sure are no pensions. Do they work hard. You betcha. Probably harder than most with better paying jobs.
So, I think this is where we part ways in our thought process. We can all agree, we dislike the "slackers", but it's the other half who are not slackers, not alcoholics, or not lazy that I believe are still thrown in the same pot and blamed for not doing better. We are not all built alike. Some people are just plain "ditzy" and and some are lacking intellectually. You've met them. Will they ever become an executive? I think recognizing all the differences in people is where the descension stems from.
I didn't even want to bring up those who lost their earning due to illness or job loss later in life, etc. That has been discussed to death here. I am just focusing on of all the rest who didn't "make it", who make up the greater percentage in my mind.
Last edited by modhatter; 03-23-2015 at 02:52 PM..
well, you might be surprised how much "secretaries" (way outdated term) make these days and, yes, they do get 401k's and they get the same benefits as any other employee in a company. And a talented hairdresser (another outdated term) in a large metro area is usually charging around $80 or more for an hour's worth of service.
Isn' the Amazon rewards card just as you described. A circle of continuous Amazon buying. I confess I am addicted.
Good. Then those who went to college, worked, put themselves through grad school while working, took care of their aging parents and then were financially ruined by illness or divorce at a late age, can get some money to help with their retirement. There are a lot of retired people who had all of the above and now, in retirement, sell on Amazon or ebay.
I think there is one thing we can all agree on, rich or poor: None of us like the slackers.
Good. Then those who went to college, worked, put themselves through grad school while working, took care of their aging parents and then were financially ruined by illness or divorce at a late age, can get some money to help with their retirement. There are a lot of retired people who had all of the above and now, in retirement, sell on Amazon or ebay.
I think there is one thing we can all agree on, rich or poor: None of us like the slackers.
And that to me is the crux of the issue. How to differentiate in policy is the challenge. I think what is making it worse is the attack on wealth and affluence by those of a particular political persuasion creating the backlash that is becoming obvious.
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your secretaries
