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Even if you changed the law, people would just give away their assets before they need it. How far back can they reasonably look back? You'll always have systems like this in a free democracy because the majority will always look to vote themselves benefits.
Hmmm. Not married now and no prospects either. Darn it (I think)
But good to keep in mind.
The pension I'll have coming likely makes you choose whether you want the option for "reduced amount now/survivor benefit later" when you take the pension at 65. And you can't change your mind later.
So unless I would be able to change it and add a spouse later, the selection I will pick at 65 -- is the one that will stick.
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 08-02-2017 at 03:38 PM..
You too will qualify for Medicaid once you've spent your resources. I do think you may be confusing Medicaid that is health insurance for the younger poor, and Medicaid that pays for nursing home care for the elderly, they are not the same. The elderly once on Medicaid still use their Medicare for health insurance, but yes, the county pays it.
But it's not for people who were always poor as you seem to be implying. It's for people like my mom, and you one day, who worked their whole lives then ended up spending all their money on health care, then once out of money applied for Medicaid (actually you apply about 6 months before that).
My mother was a single mom after my dad suffered a TBI in 1968, and raised us on a secretaries salary. After a lifetime of working, by 80 she had a pension of $400 a month, about $1200 in SS, a house worth about $50,000, and about $70,000 worth of investments from an inheritance. She too was deemed to have too much for home health, but got declined even at the ALF I worked at because she could only pay for a year or so and was relatively healthy except for chronic leg problems.
So we found a place that agreed to let her stay once she ran out of money. When she was about 6 months away from running out of money (about 18 months in) we applied for Medicaid. Now they pay her rent, and they put her on a Medicare Advantage plan.
My mom is allowed to keep less than $50 a month out of her income, the state takes the rest to put toward her rent. So there is no way she could pay for anything, in fact I buy her Depends. But she is no grasshopper, I just think you don't understand how it works or who it serves.
Right, I understand that. What I am saying is that I've spent a lifetime of scrimping while people with the same income(low) have spent now I would have to spend that down on before I could get Medicaid nursing home care. Mine would go to mundane nursing home care and they got to spend that same money on fun vacations. It penalizes the responsible poor.
[quote=Aqua Blue;49044158]Right, I understand that. What I am saying is that I've spent a lifetime of scrimping while people with the same income(low) have spent now I would have to spend that down on before I could get Medicaid nursing home care. Mine would go to mundane nursing home care and they got to spend that same money on fun vacations. It penalizes the responsible poor.[/quot
Your money that you saved, like my mom, gives you options, that is something the poor don't have. You will have the option of a lawyer or an advocate, or a lift recliner, or whatever else it is you want to spend your savings on. You seem to believe poor people lived high on the hog and spent their money rather than just never making much or having large expenses or some tragedy. I personally think you're perceptions on this aren't accurate, but I can't explain it better, sorry.
The people you know who get Medicaid no longer live at home, I'm not quite sure why you think they have it better than you do?
My great aunt was a rich spinster who inherited the proceeds of a family business. Unfortunately, with no spouse she ended up in a nursing home relatively young and lived into her 90's. She was self-pay for at least 10 years...then went on Medicaid as most do at SOME point. I think she ended up paying her share...you can only plan so well and then luck/fate takes over. Should she have gotten worse care after those 10 years of her own money going into the system? Are we really going to "punish" people that way?
not any more oxymoronic than finding all the tax deductions and tax credits legally do you
A few pages ago in this thread, I posted "I'm wondering if the words "ethics" and "adjusting your income" are oxymoronic when used together as they are being used here." and the response quoted above is the only one I see. (I think writer meant "due" you, not "do" you)
I've tried to figure out how this response makes sense, beyond being light-hearted entertainment.
I've come up empty handed.
That's ok.
I'll plan my estate, but I will also pay my own way as much as possible, as some here have explained they or their ethical family members have done. They sound like people I'd like to know.
:-)
Last edited by LilyMae521; 08-02-2017 at 08:10 AM..
tools and laws are purposely left in place in both our tax system and medicaid system to be utilized. your share of both taxes and what you pay towards long term care are the lowest amounts you can get them down to utilizing all those tools and laws left in place .
medicaid could make look back forever , but the states realize impoverishing the stay at home spouse too, will end up with 2 people on public assistance not just the one being cared for . a state full of impoverished senioers can crush local economies .
so the ability to retain assets and income via trusts , partnership plans and other medicaid planning techniques are all left for a reason . they are there just like our tax laws , to be used by those smart enough to use them .
you get no extra brownie points for paying in more taxes than you are supposed to nor do you get extra points for impoverishing your spouse if you need care .
People will always do what's best for them. Show a rich man a tax loophole and he will take it. He is not going to pay more than he has to. Show a poor man a free loaf of bread and he will take it. It's only logical to do the best you can with what you have.
Almost all of us will end up on Medicaid if we live long enough. Even if you pay for one of those LTC policies, many have expense caps and when you meet those, you will be on your own to pay out of pocket. And once your pocket is empty, there is little a disabled senior can do to replenish those funds.
What kind of society would we be if all the impoverished seniors had to camp under a freeway and beg for food? A big truck could come by once a day and pick up all the bodies. That would be cheap but we are better than that.
I am glad Medicaid exists. And I am one of the people who have just a little too much to ever qualify. My life would be better today if I had less so yes, I do think sometimes it was a mistake to work and save only to end up poor. I do envy my friend who has 100% free medical, a subsidized apartment, free food, and a free phone. He lives better than I do and has more free spending cash. But that's life and it's never fair.
People will always do what's best for them. Show a rich man a tax loophole and he will take it. He is not going to pay more than he has to. Show a poor man a free loaf of bread and he will take it. It's only logical to do the best you can with what you have.
Almost all of us will end up on Medicaid if we live long enough. Even if you pay for one of those LTC policies, many have expense caps and when you meet those, you will be on your own to pay out of pocket. And once your pocket is empty, there is little a disabled senior can do to replenish those funds.
What kind of society would we be if all the impoverished seniors had to camp under a freeway and beg for food? A big truck could come by once a day and pick up all the bodies. That would be cheap but we are better than that.
I am glad Medicaid exists. And I am one of the people who have just a little too much to ever qualify. My life would be better today if I had less so yes, I do think sometimes it was a mistake to work and save only to end up poor. I do envy my friend who has 100% free medical, a subsidized apartment, free food, and a free phone. He lives better than I do and has more free spending cash. But that's life and it's never fair.
I'm sorry, but that is not at all typical. I too have a "poor" friend. She is mentally disabled, and her mother died several years ago when my friend was about 30. She gets a whole $900 a month to live on. yes, she has a subsidized apartment (which still eats up most of her $900 check) which is in a crappy, crime-ridden apartment complex that has shootings every so often...she has free medical, but Medicaid doctors are few and far between. VERY few doctors take Medicaid. Your friend, like mine, most likely has to wait forever and travel far for medical care. My friend does not get "free food", she does get a flip phone.
I would hate my friends life. She is poor, dirt poor, despite all this subsidized stuff. She lives in fear in that apartment complex and has to take 3 or 4 busses to get to one of the few docs who take Medicaid, and runs out of food at the end of the month.
I don't mean to say you're making it up, but this notion that people who get subsidies live these great lives high on the hog is just that, hogwash. Your friend would trade her life for yours in a minute.
To avoid confusion, I want to reiterate that the Medicaid we are talking about is not the Medicaid for the elderly that the topic is based on, LTC Medicaid and Medicaid for the poor are two entirely different things.
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