Health care costs during retirement (friend, single, family, cancer)

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by mlb

I have to laugh.... I “educate” my younger friends who are pushing for “Medicare for All” - who think it’s all free...

I just think there’s too little education on those who think "Medicare for All" is a good or cheap thing.

NOTHING is free - contrary to popular belief.

Very true.

See if the following resonates with your younger friends who think "Medicare for All" or "Universal Healthcare" is the solution:

Across America, on average, we consume about $12,000 PER PERSON PER YEAR in health care goods & services, adding in everything. That's before the pandemic, of course.

• Note this does not count health insurance premiums we collectively pay to insurance companies.
• Note this isn't the "sticker price" of heath care -- the bill -- which, of course, is reduced substantially because of contracted compensation rates (we all know of examples where the hospital bill is, say, $100,000 but is reduced to, say, $15,000 because of negotiated rates with insurance companies, and of which the patient is responsible for a portion).

No, that $12,000 PER PERSON PER YEAR, on average, is the actual consumption of medical care (includes professional services, consumables including medicine, and durable equipment).

The arithmetic is ineluctable: that's how much, on average, we consume for each man, woman and child in America each year. This averages in high consumption people such as the elderly with age-related illnesses, low consumption patients such as teens and twenty-somethings, newborns, cancer patients, orthopedic basket cases as a result of high speed motorcycle accidents, people who are exceptionally healthy and haven't seen a doctor in decades and take no prescription medicines, etc etc. On average, that's how much we consume: $12,000 per person for every man, woman and child who is alive in the USA.

THEREFORE, any "Single Payer" system of health insurance, including so-called "Medicare-for-All" MUST charge insurance premiums, on average, of about $12,000 PER PERSON PER YEAR for every man, woman, and child who is alive in the USA. That's to pay for the underlying health care goods & services.

But wait - there's more. The "Single Payer" entity needs to administer the system. That's a lot of people, none of whom work for free. So in addition to the "Single Payer" insurance premium of $12,000, the governmental entity needs to charge more to pay for its administration. How much more? Well, ask yourself, how efficient are government employees?

So - your young friends - are they married? If so, that's $24K ($12K per person). Do they have kids? A family of 3 would owe $36K in premiums for "Medicare for All" ($12K per person). A family of 4 would owe $48K in premiums for "Medicare for All" ($12K per person). Actually, it is somewhat more than that - the extra would pay for government administration.

Clearly, "Medicare for All" aka "Single-Payer INSURANCE" does not solve the problem that health care costs too damn much in this country.

I don't have the solution, but I know just having the government pay for the same quantity of health care goods and services doesn't reduce the total or the average of $12K per person per year. What we need is a way to rip costs out of the system - and most of those costs are administrative. They are people who work in hospitals and clinics and medical offices who sit at desks and interact with computer screens -- they don't add value and they don't care for patients; they push paper (electrons) and they earn a salary. They are also breadwinners for their families. The objective needs to be to reduce the average consumption from the pre-Covid $12K per person per year down to $11K and down to $10K and so on. The only way to do that is to take massive numbers of those administrative people who earn a living in the health care industry but don't actually deliver health care - and lay them off.

Not likely to happen, of course.

Aside from that, I don't have a solution.

[mathjak107]

My covid and my wife’s , cost Medicare 20 years of average costs right there , 250k in two weeks

[atlguy44]

Having worked in a variety of countries and health care systems, no country has the perfect system. Health care is expensive!

[ocnjgirl]

Originally Posted by Mr5150

I don’t know where “They” get that $295,000 figure. But in the last 6 years since I retired, not counting low cost prescriptions, I spent $0 of my net income. That includes 2 two trips to the hospital, physical therapy, medical appointments and tests.

Net income is what is available to me after the monthly Medicare deduction and supplement.

The costs won't start ballooning until/if you start getting serious illnesses. Hospitals, rehabs, expensive drugs not covered, bandages and wrappings that aren't covered, home health, etc. Most young people too can say they love their health insurance because they're never sick, but the one with breast cancer will have a different opinion of the same insurance plan. Same thing when retired.

[mathjak107]

A coworker with an advantage plan had his wife get cancer towards the end of the year ...the copay for chemo was 4500 bucks ...he hit 2 copays because it spawned into the following year ....9k in a matter of weeks just for her ...

We had something similar on part b with covid .

I went in the hospital for covid dec 17 ....for the doctors that was under the 2020 deductibles, new ones started in January all over so the doctors in January were under a new deductible

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by marcandme

Sad. Most seniors can`t afford implants.

Actually, most seniors can afford implants just fine. The senior age cohort is by far the wealthiest age cohort.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by mathjak107

Bad crap does not wait for your timetable.

Perhaps there is a way to make the above quote a "sticky" at the highest level of C-D.

[StealthRabbit]

These arguments seem to assume the current COST of care in the USA is accurate and realistic

That may not be the case if one drilled down to a zero profit cost basis.
I am quite used to 'self pay' in other countries, which typically is 1/4 - 1/10 USA charges.

Maybe withdraw the litigation, cost of employee benefits, expected Standard of Pay for medical staff (justified or not). Make medical school free for the excellent suited and purposed students. Restrict profitability of medical supplies, share drug development costs over all users over the life of med...

Red tape ? Fix it by those who must endure it daily for lst 3 decades.

Preventive care?... Get with it, make it a national priority, insentise good health and eating for all. Especially young families on public assistance.

So many simple solutions, and great projects for students and teachers stuck at home during a relevant pandemic.

[paleo99]

Originally Posted by Sand&Salt

This is why we retired overseas, to a country with universal health care that would allow seniors to join. Medicare with all the supplements was not affordable for us and we wanted some $$ to travel.

For $80 per month (for both of us) we are covered 100%. We do voluntarily pay for some stuff out of pocket just for convenience, and even that adds up, even though all medical here is so much cheaper. We probably didn't budget enough for those add-ons. Like a dermatologist visit for $50 here and there. Crowns: $400.

But wow, no co-pays or deductibles is SUCH a relief. No surprises. No "networks", lol.

What your describing sounds like what I deal with over here in Japan.

[MI-Roger]

I worked for more than 38 years for GM.
For the final 10 years of GM employment, and all of my subsequent employment, we got our Health Insurance via my wife's job as it was a less costly and more comprehensive plan.
Yesterday I received a letter from GM Benefits alerting me that I will be 65 years old this year (duh!) and can no longer be covered via their Salaried Retiree Health Insurance Program. I have never been part of this plan as it is even more costly with less coverage than their Salaried Employee Health Insurance Plan!

So a major corporation, which not too long ago was the world's largest company, is dumping 100% of their salaried retiree Health Care Costs onto Medicare!