How southern is Richmond? (Arlington, Fairfax: chapel, house, move)

[Babe_Ruth]

Richmond is geographically in the traditional South.. below the Mason-Dixon line.

Richmond is demographically consistent with the South.. large, generations-deep Black population.

Richmond has the historical Southern pedigree.. Confederate capital, etc.

Richmond is upper, Old South.. These threads are always about the same concept. Trying to disparage and erase the South, because contemporary Leftists want to scapegoat the South for all of America's racial sins, and then quietly send the South into oblivion.. That's why they keep moving the goal posts on what is the South ?, until the South will only constitute a tiny part of the country & our national consciousness.. it's lame.

[ConfusingRotary]

Eh, I've lived in the Deep South before (Southwest Georgia) and it has very little in common with the Richmond area. I don't think rural areas around RVA are much different from rural PA where I grew up (which was in the far north of PA, close to the NY border near Binghamton). It is different from rural GA, though. The whole "Southern" thing is weird to me, though. I don't know why it matters if it's considered Southern or not. I've seen confederate flags in downtown Middletown, CT, which is supposed to be yankee territory. It's almost as if 150 years have gone by and populations have changed since that war

[rvabread22]

Originally Posted by Charlesaf3

The city of Richmond is simply not southern. Amazing how people can't grasp change - was southern doesn't mean still southern. Chesterfield county is a bit, Henrico not so much.

A bit of hanging out in all those places will make it abundantly clear to anyone.

I live in the city of Richmond and I don't agree. For one thing, the pace here is more Southern. I saw two men in seersuckers just last week in Shockoe Slip just sitting back and talking. People say hello to you on the street and wave to each other. That is more Southern than Northern


The "row houses" here have that big porch veranda feel that is distinctly Southern in character. And the magnolia trees everywhere.


Go to Libbie Market in the West end where they have stocks of Pimento cheese. Big canister of sweet tea, and the politeness and courtesy of the staff.

People may WANT Richmond to be Northern, but it just isn't.

Maybe Richmond has more Northern qualities than it did in the past, but its still a Southern city.

[rvabread22]

Originally Posted by ConfusingRotary

Eh, I've lived in the Deep South before (Southwest Georgia) and it has very little in common with the Richmond area. I don't think rural areas around RVA are much different from rural PA where I grew up (which was in the far north of PA, close to the NY border near Binghamton). It is different from rural GA, though. The whole "Southern" thing is weird to me, though. I don't know why it matters if it's considered Southern or not. I've seen confederate flags in downtown Middletown, CT, which is supposed to be yankee territory. It's almost as if 150 years have gone by and populations have changed since that war

We never said Richmond was like the Deep South. We just said it was Southern. Many parts of rural Virginia might not be drastically different than where you're from. But that doesn't mean its exactly the same. The Deep South is its own entity. Georgia is rather different from Carolina or Mississippi. So you're giving an anectdotal comparison. The Shenandoah Valley may be like rural PA, but have you been to Waverly, or Smithfield, Virginia? Those places are undeniably Southern.

I don't know why it matters if it's considered Southern or not

It kinda matters to people who have deep family roots here. Because being rooted in Southern culture and then having someone say your city is a Northern one, is actually kind of polarizing.

[rvabread22]

Originally Posted by Diff1

RVA also is not in tune with Charlotte, Raleigh and ATL, and Richmond is in tune with D.C.

Richmond is not in tune with DC. That is laughable. And Raleigh is actually less Southern than Richmond. I have been there many times. In fact the Raleigh area feels a lot like NOVA.

[rvabread22]

Isn't it interesting that most people who say Richmond is not one bit Southern are mostly the Northern transplants and not actual Southerners? I have had encounters with many people from other places in the South tell me that Richmond is nowhere near as North as they thought it would be. They even comment on our Southern hospitality and manners here. One gal I met from Alabama said "They feel like home folks".

[aquest1]

Originally Posted by rvabread22

Isn't it interesting that most people who say Richmond is not one bit Southern are mostly the Northern transplants and not actual Southerners? I have had encounters with many people from other places in the South tell me that Richmond is nowhere near as North as they thought it would be. They even comment on our Southern hospitality and manners here. One gal I met from Alabama said "They feel like home folks".

That's weird because I have family throughout Alabama and I can tell you it's worlds different and they acknowledge that. But the South is a big region and is diverse within itself, no less than the West Coast or Midwest. So Richmond is a southern city. But in any case, the cities most "in tune" with Richmond are Charlottesville, Norfolk, DC, and Baltimore, in that order. All of these are classically, cities of the Upper South with different degrees of transitional characteristics that many also consider Mid-Atlantic. And in the case of Baltimore and DC, exclusively Mid-Atlantic or Northeastern as vestiges of southern culture have almost completely taking a back seat. That cultural change has a lot to do with demographic change in the early 20th century (immigration), industrial ties and other shifts in the mid-late 20th century. We still share cuisine, the Chesapeake, largely sports culture, overall demographics and weather.

And you know, DC and Richmond have similar architectural qualities that are not mirrored outside the Mid-Atlantic:

Richmond streetscape: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5463...7i13312!8i6656

DC streetscape: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9105...7i13312!8i6656

If Richmond were just a bit larger/more populous, I think the similarities would be more obvious, but the size differential is the really significant. Charleston, Savannah and New Orleans have a differently-accented architectural style that matches their respective regions. Row homes exist in Savannah, but they are quite ornate, for example https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0712...8i6656!6m1!1e1. Very different than what you find in DC, Richmond or Norfolk.

[rvabread22]

Originally Posted by aquest1

That's weird because I have family throughout Alabama and I can tell you it's worlds different and they acknowledge that. But the South is a big region and is diverse within itself, no less than the West Coast or Midwest. So Richmond is a southern city. But in any case, the cities most "in tune" with Richmond are Charlottesville, Norfolk, DC, and Baltimore, in that order. All of these are classically, cities of the Upper South with different degrees of transitional characteristics that many also consider Mid-Atlantic. And in the case of Baltimore and DC, exclusively Mid-Atlantic or Northeastern as vestiges of southern culture have almost completely taking a back seat. That cultural change has a lot to do with demographic change in the early 20th century (immigration), industrial ties and other shifts in the mid-late 20th century. We still share cuisine, the Chesapeake, largely sports culture, overall demographics and weather.

And you know, DC and Richmond have similar architectural qualities that are not mirrored outside the Mid-Atlantic:

Richmond streetscape: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5463...7i13312!8i6656

DC streetscape: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9105...7i13312!8i6656

If Richmond were just a bit larger/more populous, I think the similarities would be more obvious, but the size differential is the really significant. Charleston, Savannah and New Orleans have a differently-accented architectural style that matches their respective regions. Row homes exist in Savannah, but they are quite ornate, for example https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0712...8i6656!6m1!1e1. Very different than what you find in DC, Richmond or Norfolk.

Richmond is tiny in comparison to Baltimore or DC. Look at the 100 mile gap between Richmond and D.C. That's a big one. You have little Fredericksburg and that's about it! Would you lump Louisville KY in with Cleveland, Ohio? Richmond was a city built around agriculture. Once surrounded by tobacco fields. It is not like Baltimore. Baltimore was always industrial . Charlottesville is a college town near the blue ridge mountains, so I don't see that comparison either.

Look at Rt 5 just outside of Richmond. Its very rural and nothing much there as you come from Williamsburg. That is much more typical of a Southern city than a Northern one. In Northeast Metro areas, you have sprawl after sprawl of other cities- some almost as large as the center city, and much more density. In this way, Richmond simply does not fit! The James River plantation homes just outside of the city on the River. That is much more like the Charleston region!

Richmond's row houses have a Southern twist to them which is just different in nature than you find even a little further north. They do not really mirror Baltimore-D.C. environments.

Monument Ave has many qualities that are similar to Charleston and Savannah. . But if your litmus test for Richmond is the Deepest of Southern cities, naturally you will say Richmond isn't South or "Southern" .Do you find Richmond to be not as friendly as other parts of the South? The pace of life here certainly is not like a Northeast city. Richmond is entirely different paced than Baltimore, Philadelphia or D.C. And you know- even Alexandria, Virginia feels more South than North because I have been there too. And there is just more a slower pace than the Northeast cities.
I could understand if we were arguing whether or not D.C. was a Southern city, but Richmond is just too far steeped in a Southern agriculture and Southern roots to be part of that quandry. I find it non-debateable.

[spencer114]

Richmond was built around industrial sites, not agriculture (there was infrastructure in the way of exchanges, docks, large mills and warehouses for agricultural products). Every city was surrounded by crops. People did need to eat.

[spencer114]

And Alexandria is nearly identical to Georgetown. What makes Richmond (and Alexandria) look different is that more of the row hourse are painted, and that's a realitivly new thing.