Housing market in Sac (San Francisco, Sacramento: sale, rentals, insurance)

[sacite]

Originally Posted by hd4me

Sprawliculous

Yes, exactly that's the mental image I get when I think of sprawl!

Maybe it can be disguised better by putting it in some luxe trappings like the Palladio or the Fountains.

Haha sprawl is like pornography; I cannot define it but I know it when I see it.

[caligirlz]

Originally Posted by sacite

I still think sprawl is Carl's Junior, a $19.99 smog shop and a laundromat. Or possibly a Dunkin Doughnuts. Any 2 block radius that has 3 of those 4 is well within the sprawl zone .

Originally Posted by hd4me

Maybe it can be disguised better by putting it in some luxe trappings like the Palladio or the Fountains.

You're not going to find any those stores at either Palladio or the Fountains. But perhaps in 30 years when the next reincarnation of the shopping mall is out, they will be considered sprawl.

[wburg]

Palladio and the Fountains were sprawl from the minute they were built. That's what sprawl is.

[caligirlz]

shopping stores are considered sprawl ......
I suppose just like the sprawl in midtown

[wburg]

Sprawl is the new growth on the outer edge of an urban area into rural areas, characterized by single-use zoning, low density and auto-centric design. So, things like shopping malls and subdivisions on the far end of the urban boundary are sprawl in its current context. Midtown hasn't been the far edge of urban growth since the 1880s, and was always inside the city limits.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by wburg

Sprawl is the new growth on the outer edge of an urban area into rural areas, characterized by single-use zoning, low density and auto-centric design. So, things like shopping malls and subdivisions on the far end of the urban boundary are sprawl in its current context. Midtown hasn't been the far edge of urban growth since the 1880s, and was always inside the city limits.

So a remodeling of Sunrise Mall and Marketplace, the Florin Shopping Area, Country Club Plaza, Or Arden Fair would be just fine with you, then?

No?

I thought so.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by wburg

Palladio and the Fountains were sprawl from the minute they were built. That's what sprawl is.

A places where people *like* to shop. Anathema!

Roseville dwellers should be forced to come downtown, standing room only on trolley cars, where they can shop at some state run store. We can call it GUM (pronounced "goom".)

The Slavic immigrant people say, "been there, done that...."

[jgooner22]

This thread was supposed to be about the housing market, not on whether we reach a consensus on what a sprawl is. :|

[wburg]

Well, you asked how we see the housing market in that area, and what I see is continued sprawl--that is, continued new growth onto greenfield. You also asked what people meant about sprawl in Placer County:

Originally Posted by jgooner22

Not sure what you mean by the sprawl out in Placer County? I didn't notice anything like that while touring neighborhoods in both Roseville and Rocklin. In fact, I found Roseville to be very similar to Folsom.

That's what spurred the derail about exactly what folks meant by "sprawl." And because it's a loaded term, people unloaded with responses.

There are something like 600,000 new homes planned or under construction in the metro area, all on new greenfield areas. No judgment there, just a fact. I guess some folks get sensitive about use of the term "sprawl," because they like new growth onto greenfield, but that's just what it is, they have every right to like it. Not sure how it would become sprawl after new growth has taken place farther out. The urban growth machine works by turning cheap farmland into expensive suburbs, then building more suburbs farther out as the inner suburbs decay--as many are noticing, the older suburbs from Arden-Arcade and Carmichael to Citrus Heights and, as you noted, parts of Roseville, are not doing so well these days. The car-centric solution is to continue growth outward. Eventually, the "growth machine" starts to break down when commute times and traffic get so bad that development reaches a point of diminishing returns, as it has in Los Angeles and some parts of the Bay Area. Again, no judgment there, just observation of fact.

[caligirlz]

Originally Posted by jgooner22

this thread was supposed to be about the housing market, not on whether we reach a consensus on what a sprawl is. :|

And that is the nature of discussions....everywhere....