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also given the fact you can't control what smoke does or where it goes. once it's breathed out or emitted by the cigarette it's pretty much not under your control. a dog, you bathe, you groom, you train. you keep on a leash. you can physically remove him from an area he's unwanted. the smoke, you can not.
Oh, horse apples - this is what I call REALLY stretching a point!! You're outside amongst the dogs and nasty birds....yet you want to complain about SMOKE?!??
Oh, horse apples - this is what I call REALLY stretching a point!! You're outside amongst the dogs and nasty birds....yet you want to complain about SMOKE?!??
Please....
Well cigarette smoke is known to cause cancer and other nasty health problems. I have never heard of a dog or bird causing cancer. The chances of falling ill being around smoke is much much higher than being around someone's dog every once in a while. And being worried about birds??? I am not sure any law is going to keep birds from flying overheard.
Well cigarette smoke is known to cause cancer and other nasty health problems. I have never heard of a dog or bird causing cancer. The chances of falling ill being around smoke is much much higher than being around someone's dog every once in a while. And being worried about birds??? I am not sure any law is going to keep birds from flying overheard.
Please use actual facts instead of what you watched on the local news channel.
This is just a quick search from the CDC's website on diseases dogs can carry. I'm not supporting smoking but I'm not sure how you can claim it's the worst thing out there. Being an exsmoker smoke bothers me a lot but I'd rather not leave the saucer with one of these issues...
Dogs can carry a variety of germs that can make people sick. Some of these germs are common and some are rare. For example, puppies may pass the bacterium Campylobacter in their feces (stool). This germ can cause diarrhea in people. Puppies and some adult dogs often carry a variety of parasites that can cause rashes or illness in people.* *Less often, dogs in urban or rural areas can carry the bacterium Leptospira (lep-TO-spy-ruh). This germ causes the disease leptospirosis (lep-to-spi-roh-sis) in people and animals. Dogs can also carry rabies, a deadly viral disease. Rabies from dogs is rare in the United States.
Some people are more likely than others to get diseases from dogs. A person's age and health status may affect his or her immune system, increasing the chances of getting sick. People who are more likely to get diseases from dogs include infants, children younger than 5 years old, organ transplant patients, people with HIV/AIDS, and people being treated for cancer. Special advice is available for people who are at greater risk than others of getting diseases from animals.
Many groups support the health benefits of pets. These groups provide information on how pets can help people be healthy.
Below, you can learn more about dog-related diseases.
Brucella canis Infection (brucellosis): A bacterial disease rarely associated with dogs.
Campylobacter Infection (campylobacteriosis): A bacterial disease associated with dogs, cats, and farm animals.
Cryptosporidium Infection (cryptosporidiosis): A parasitic disease associated with dogs, especially puppies, cats, and farm animals.
Dipylidium Infection (tapeworm): A parasitic disease associated with dogs, cats and fleas.
Giardia Infection (giardiasis): A parasitic disease associated with various animals, including dogs and their environment (including water).
Hookworm Infection: A parasitic disease associated with dogs and cats and their environment.
Leishmania Infection (leishmaniasis): A parasitic disease associated with dogs and sand flies outside the United States.
Leptospira Infection (leptospirosis): A bacterial disease associated with wild and domestic animals, including dogs.
Lyme Disease: A bacterial disease that can affect dogs and ticks.
Q Fever (Coxiella burnetii): A bacterial disease occasionally associated with dogs.
Rabies: A viral disease associated with various animals, including dogs.
Ringworm: A fungal disease associated with dogs.
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever: A bacterial disease associated with dogs and ticks.
Roundworm: See Toxocara infection.
Salmonella Infection (salmonellosis): A bacterial disease associated with various animals including dogs.
Tapeworm (flea tapeworm): See Dipylidium Infection.
Toxocara Infection (toxocariasis, roundworm): A parasitic disease associated with dogs and cats and their environment.
Personally I'm severely allergic to dogs (particularly their saliva) and find it extremely uncomfortable to be around them. I realize that the majority of my neighbors own dogs and I make sure to take allergy medicine and not stay too long when I visit a dog owner's house. I hate it when people let their dog jump up on me ("he's just saying hello!"), but I tolerate that as well.
However, I don't think that it's unreasonable of me to expect not to encounter any dogs when I visit a restraunt or bar. I firmly believe that a dog has no place at an extremely busy bar (like the Saucer), where people tend to hangout for an hour or more in dense crowds. I might be a little more forgiving of a dog at an outdoor cafe or ice cream stand where it's less crowded and people don't stay as long.
I am not worried about the dogs on the patios of the restaurants. I can see the dogs. I am more concerned with what goes on in the kitchens of the restaurants.
Please use actual facts instead of what you watched on the local news channel.
This is just a quick search from the CDC's website on diseases dogs can carry. I'm not supporting smoking but I'm not sure how you can claim it's the worst thing out there. Being an exsmoker smoke bothers me a lot but I'd rather not leave the saucer with one of these issues...
Dogs can carry a variety of germs that can make people sick. Some of these germs are common and some are rare. For example, puppies may pass the bacterium Campylobacter in their feces (stool). This germ can cause diarrhea in people. Puppies and some adult dogs often carry a variety of parasites that can cause rashes or illness in people.* *Less often, dogs in urban or rural areas can carry the bacterium Leptospira (lep-TO-spy-ruh). This germ causes the disease leptospirosis (lep-to-spi-roh-sis) in people and animals. Dogs can also carry rabies, a deadly viral disease. Rabies from dogs is rare in the United States.
Some people are more likely than others to get diseases from dogs. A person's age and health status may affect his or her immune system, increasing the chances of getting sick. People who are more likely to get diseases from dogs include infants, children younger than 5 years old, organ transplant patients, people with HIV/AIDS, and people being treated for cancer. Special advice is available for people who are at greater risk than others of getting diseases from animals.
Many groups support the health benefits of pets. These groups provide information on how pets can help people be healthy.
Below, you can learn more about dog-related diseases.
Brucella canis Infection (brucellosis): A bacterial disease rarely associated with dogs.
Campylobacter Infection (campylobacteriosis): A bacterial disease associated with dogs, cats, and farm animals.
Cryptosporidium Infection (cryptosporidiosis): A parasitic disease associated with dogs, especially puppies, cats, and farm animals.
Dipylidium Infection (tapeworm): A parasitic disease associated with dogs, cats and fleas.
Giardia Infection (giardiasis): A parasitic disease associated with various animals, including dogs and their environment (including water).
Hookworm Infection: A parasitic disease associated with dogs and cats and their environment.
Leishmania Infection (leishmaniasis): A parasitic disease associated with dogs and sand flies outside the United States.
Leptospira Infection (leptospirosis): A bacterial disease associated with wild and domestic animals, including dogs.
Lyme Disease: A bacterial disease that can affect dogs and ticks.
Q Fever (Coxiella burnetii): A bacterial disease occasionally associated with dogs.
Rabies: A viral disease associated with various animals, including dogs.
Ringworm: A fungal disease associated with dogs.
Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever: A bacterial disease associated with dogs and ticks.
Roundworm: See Toxocara infection.
Salmonella Infection (salmonellosis): A bacterial disease associated with various animals including dogs.
Tapeworm (flea tapeworm): See Dipylidium Infection.
Toxocara Infection (toxocariasis, roundworm): A parasitic disease associated with dogs and cats and their environment.
most of these are extremely avoidable from the use of vaccinations and preventative control and good old fashioned proper care. if your dog has RABIES i think you have greater concerns then whether or not he can sit outside the flying saucer.
really, you do have a higher chance catching something nasty from other people or the food you're eating, then a well cared for dog.
most of these are extremely avoidable from the use of vaccinations and preventative control and good old fashioned proper care. if your dog has RABIES i think you have greater concerns then whether or not he can sit outside the flying saucer.
really, you do have a higher chance catching something nasty from other people or the food you're eating, then a well cared for dog.
I totally agree that most of these are easily taken care of by proper vaccinations. Who is checking health records of the animals when they're on the property? Look, I'm not trying to be ridiculous here... and I would never expect to have a business check health records of dogs... but my post was in direct response so someone claiming they immediately catch cancer when someone lights up a cigarette within 1,000 feet of their vicinity.
Because not everyone gets their dog vaccinated, I still don't think they need/should be at an establishment that I eat food in.
I totally agree that most of these are easily taken care of by proper vaccinations. Who is checking health records of the animals when they're on the property? Look, I'm not trying to be ridiculous here... and I would never expect to have a business check health records of dogs... but my post was in direct response so someone claiming they immediately catch cancer when someone lights up a cigarette within 1,000 feet of their vicinity.
Because not everyone gets their dog vaccinated, I still don't think they need/should be at an establishment that I eat food in.
my aversion to the argument in general is mostly the comparison of dogs to cigarettes. both have their own set of issues, problems, points and sides. however, i don't think the comparison to one verses the other is very accurate at all, which is why i was really hesitant to bring it up in the first place.
that isn't to say i disagree with what you've mentioned already, about vaccinations and such. my personal experience tells me that most people who involve their dogs in activities outside the home tend to keep them vaccinated, on flea/tick prevention, groomed, etc. while no one wants to catch something from a dog, most pet owners don't want their dog getting hurt or catching something from being out in public either.
Well the only real answer here is for the owners of the locations that want to allow dogs on the patios is to get the permit so that no one can tell them to stop for code compliance and If the business has a permit to allow dogs and you don't want to sit near the dogs you can stay inside and feel the plight of the nonsmokers. You are also always welcome to take your hard earned cash to somewhere else that doesnt allow dogs.
The final choice is really up to the owner that wants to file for the permit and if the city will issue it. If you want you favorite place to allow dogs tell them to get the city permit. That way the can post a big sign about it and be in the paper and on the news (free press) like that other restaurant did.
I totally agree that most of these are easily taken care of by proper vaccinations. Who is checking health records of the animals when they're on the property? Look, I'm not trying to be ridiculous here... and I would never expect to have a business check health records of dogs... but my post was in direct response so someone claiming they immediately catch cancer when someone lights up a cigarette within 1,000 feet of their vicinity.
Because not everyone gets their dog vaccinated, I still don't think they need/should be at an establishment that I eat food in.
Where did I or anyone else say that you will immediately catch cancer from smoking???
Look, the effects of second hand smoke are real and documented and they go beyond the possibility of causing cancer. Just because a dog is on the same patio as you does not mean you have to come in contact with the animal. The same thing cannot be said with second hand smoke when someone is smoking near you. You can't control where that smoke blows.
Obviously there are illnesses you can catch from dogs and cats but pretty much everything you listed can be treated aside from rabies. I suppose cancer can be treated too but I would argue that the problems related to second hand smoke are typically far worse than any of the problems in your list outside of rabies. And lets face it, it is highly unlikely that someone would bring a rabid dog to a bar or restaurant.
Your point about checking health records is not ridiculous though. I am sure these establishments did not check records before but I bet they would be able to so easily enough. All they have to do is require the animals have a tag which proves they have up to date vaccinations. And if the city was to legalize having pets on the patio that would be a good requirement to have if a business wants to allow it.
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