Why are none of these things in the downtown area?? (San Antonio: living in, price)

[googie2525]

Originally Posted by quest51210

wong spot or wongs grocery is where my good buddy robert tatum opened up a night spot about 14 years ago. it was a very cool place and was about the same time he helped start up the first friday events. this was around the time he came under fire about the mural of the virgen mary he did that stirred up san antonio for a bit.

southtown was such a cool place then. it lies on the corner of cevallos, flores, and nogalitos...maybe 5 corners?

Now, Wong's Art Bar was the s**t, I loved that place (great food by Wes Stone, drinks actually made correctly, and cool touring and local art/music performances), this one was over in St. Paul's Square (in that big warehouse with the Gary Sweeney artwork on the side, which I THINK is still there, the Sweeney artwork I mean, not the building, which will be there forever I'm sure).

BTW, didn't Tatum start the Wiggle Room too? And is it still there? We were just discussing the Wiggle Room last night and how it's been forever since I even ever heard the name aloud, and I assume if yer one of Robert Tatum's buddies you might know?

I remember those parties he used to have at Ellis Bean in SouthTown, those were amazing and make me just ache for the '"olden days" of SouthTown (and unrelated places like the Honey Factory, the Green Onion, etc.).

KW really just seems dead to me these days, and First Friday doesn't really do it for me anymore...now, Second Saturday seems to be the only event in KW I go to for the most part (a less rowdy crowd, and folks actually interested in the art - wow, what a concept ).

I'm hoping with all the condos going in across from Casbeer's, we'll get a little more hipsterfied art slash nightlife action over there.

[CelesteDF]

Originally Posted by googie2525

Now, Wong's Art Bar was the s**t

True that!

Originally Posted by googie2525

I'm hoping with all the condos going in across from Casbeer's, we'll get a little more hipsterfied art slash nightlife action over there.

Don't count on it. The pricing on the St. Benedict's condos is pretty high... far more than my hipsterfied friends who patronize that "art slash nightlife action" could afford on their pseudo-artist/slacker salaries. I have one decidedly non-hipster friend who's buying a 1200 sf condo there and let's just say that it cost more than twice what my 2500sf Tobin Hill house cost.

[OzzyRules]

Originally Posted by sinsativ

There used to be the Kmart downtown, but then that chain left. so,

There was also a Woolworth that closed a few years before KMart did.

[goodiee2shoes]

This is my first time in San Antonio and some of you say that King William has a few rich and a lot of "poor" people?? I don't see that at all...hahaha (though we are right by the river). Anyway I don't care if you make 29K a year you still need to buy groceries...and actually those are the people who would buy groceries and not eat out a lot. As an outsider looking in...I just feel that this area is SO attractive and I just wanted to comment how odd it seemed to me that it lacked some basic stores. That is great about the development and that potentially more businesses are coming here. I also just want to say that SA has the friendliest people...and it is something you really notice!

[quest51210]

you basically agree with what i say but still have questions? makes no sense, thats why i asked you to elaborate on what you wanted because you agree with my statement as it is.

Originally Posted by quest51210

by the way, the median income for the king william area as of june of this year was $28K a year, 90% of the area is still lower middle class

Originally Posted by wCat

exactly.....so why is the King William area to blame for the decline of businesses downtown. The very small area of larger homes (ie incomes) couldn't support what's needed down there. I'm not sure what you're saying above?

[wCat]

Originally Posted by quest51210

grocery store...you had one on Fir and St. Mary's. odd enough it was also a lumber store afterwards and that was gone too because people either decided to shop at other HEB's over Handy Andy or they preferred to shop at Lowes and Home Depot instead of Ace Hardware. its no one's fault but the king william community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quest51210 View Post
by the way, the median income for the king william area as of june of this year was $28K a year, 90% of the area is still lower middle class
Quote:
Originally Posted by wCat View Post
exactly.....so why is the King William area to blame for the decline of businesses downtown. The very small area of larger homes (ie incomes) couldn't support what's needed down there. I'm not sure what you're saying above?

you basically agree with what i say but still have questions? makes no sense, thats why i asked you to elaborate on what you wanted because you agree with my statement as it is.

Would you stop with the mind games. Here it is in the order it was posted. You stated that people in the downtown area decided to abandon the areas businesses and go to HEB and Lowes....but then add that the median income in KW is $28K. You didn't ask me to elaborate on anything. You said DM you for further info. I plainly said I'm not sure what you're saying. What is hard about this? And what is the big secret that it can't be posted here? We ARE discussing WHY these businesses are NOT downtown??

The lower income of KW is to blame? or the 10% that is higher income? Are lower income residents really driving further out to more expensive stores? Or are you saying that Lowes and HEB are bargains and worth the bus ride or drive? Just asking for clarity here that could have been posted in this topic....and very relevant to the OP's question.

[urbansa]

Originally Posted by CelesteDF

True that!

Don't count on it. The pricing on the St. Benedict's condos is pretty high... far more than my hipsterfied friends who patronize that "art slash nightlife action" could afford on their pseudo-artist/slacker salaries. I have one decidedly non-hipster friend who's buying a 1200 sf condo there and let's just say that it cost more than twice what my 2500sf Tobin Hill house cost.

The hipster/art nightlife of ST/King William hasn't gone away, it's just gorwn up. I went to all the usual spots - wiggle room, the original Wongs on S. Flores, Botanica Infinito, etc. Now it's Le Frite, La Tuna, Casbeer's, Blue Star Brew Pub, Rosario's, Azuca, etc etc.. Add to that the new Liberty Bar Venture at St. Benedict's, Oloroso, Le Frite and the new Le Frite Wine Bar, etc. and there's more quality local restaurants/bars in a 1 mile radius than any other spot in San Antonio. Point being that the people who drove the earlier spots now hang at the latter - 20 years later and with a little more cash in pocket. Business is more or less booming. As for the art scene that rises above First Friday standards, get on some mailing lists for Sala Diaz, Unit B Gallery, Robot, TPS, REM, Blue Star, 19zero6, etc.etc.etc. (better yet, join up and/or volounteer) and you'll have more party options than you can stand.

On St. Benedict's, yes it's "priced" higher than other inner city housing, but I've had a few of those homes myself. Total up your utilities, maintenance, repairs, etc., add the cost of a gym and hipster pool area, and add the cost of driving even a couple of trips a week (since you don't really use VIA because you don't have a p/u and drop off in front of your house), and you quickly find out that St. Ben is at least even with most standard homes. The ability to walk to numerous restaraunts, bars and galleries w/o breaking a sweat is an add, as well as is being on miles of hike/bike trails along the river.

On grocery stores, HEB bets that ST/downtown folks will drive the 5-10 minutes to hit Central Market or the new McCreless HEB - and its paying off. They'll open downtown as soon as Big Tex, NRP Group's Probandt apartments, Victoria Commons, Vistana, Vidorra, and maybe 500 to 1,000 more units become fully built out. For now we have Hippo's, Main Plaza Market, Delivery Market, a market in Lavaca carrying produce, loads of great and cheap produce off Laredo St. or at Fruteria Los Amigos on Roosevelt, and great meat at Bolner's. SA is 10 years behind everyone else in TX. The closer we come to them the more we'll have in downtown, but the closer our prices will be to them as well.

[traficdogn]

Originally Posted by goodiee2shoes

We are in the King William District and I am wondering why there are none of these businesses close by:

Grocery Store
Liquor Store (selection or wine, liquor, and beer)
Movie Rental (Blockbuster/Hollywood Video)
Home store (sheets, pillows, bath accessories, etc.)
Hardware store

I was just curious if people have tried to open these in this area and have failed or if is just a market that people are overlooking.

It has more to do with economic makeup of the area than, "King William" itself.

If you examine carefully, you will find that the scenario is very similar in low-income urban areas across the US. There are a lot of good reads on the topic. Especially LA times / NY times.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by urbansa

As for the art scene that rises above First Friday standards, get on some mailing lists for Sala Diaz, Unit B Gallery, Robot, TPS, REM, Blue Star, 19zero6, etc.etc.etc. (better yet, join up and/or volounteer) and you'll have more party options than you can stand.

Very true. We don't go that often, but our friends go to art openings/parties almost every week.

[quote=urbansa;5459284]
On grocery stores, HEB bets that ST/downtown folks will drive the 5-10 minutes to hit Central Market or the new McCreless HEB - and its paying off. They'll open downtown as soon as Big Tex, NRP Group's Probandt apartments, Victoria Commons, Vistana, Vidorra, and maybe 500 to 1,000 more units become fully built out. For now we have Hippo's, Main Plaza Market, Delivery Market, a market in Lavaca carrying produce, [quote]

Hippos is little more than a glorified convenience store, unfortunately. I had really high hopes but found basically chips, salsa, BBQ stuff, though they do have a decent wine/beer selection. Otherwise they had no more than the PikNik. Only way to get produce is to go the day it arrives. It basically serves the downtown hotel population rather than residents.

Delivery Market left it's Alamo St location but it too was little more than a glorified convenience store - again, nice beer and wine, and a deli, but otherwise chips, chips, more chips.... Maybe the Houston St location has a bit more.

I really wanted to patronize both of these,and was disappointed.

The market in Lavaca may or may not develop into a grocery. It's a convenience store that started carrying produce at the requests of residents, which is great. But for now, its produce is limited to a few apples and potatoes.

We don't need an HEB, but an old fashioned neighborhood grocery would be nice. I've lived in many other cities with them - small, but carrying more than chips!

[lemonfresh]

What's in the Wong Grocery building now?

Also, it looks like a decent sized grocery store will be opening downtown.