Lake Arrowhead - Contemplating buying a small home there (San Bernardino: appointed, sales)

[OTea]

My husband and I have been contemplating buying a second home in Lake Arrowhead because the prices have come down so much, it is only a 90-minute drive from Orange County, and we would love to have a peaceful, beautiful, and safe getaway on the weekends (with the idea of possibly relocating there permanently in 5 years or so).

We live in Orange County, I am a native southern Californian and my husband is from the Midwest. He is fine driving in snow, but I have never had to learn how to do so. From reading the threads about Arrowhead, doing research, and talking to people, it seems the main drawbacks are: (1) the fog/wind on the 18 during certain times, (2) fire danger, (3) driving around town in the winter after a storm, and (4) bark beetles/drought. Let me know if I missed something. Since we probably wouldn't come up during the winter when the weather is bad, the weather will only be an issue when we are living there full-time and I don't see that as being a deal-breaker issue. Either I will rely on my husband when I need to go somewhere in the winter or I will learn to drive in those kind of conditions.

I think my main concern is about the fire danger. For those folks living in Arrowhead, is this a major concern? Earthquakes are a concern for me, but it's not something I think about much because they don't happen often. Is that how it is with fire danger there?

Also, on this forum you read so much about how much crime there is in San Bernardino. Given that, where are the safe areas to shop in SB county when you come down the hill to do shopping?

It's tough to know if you are going to like living somewhere before you actually do, and research only goes so far, so we are trying to spend as much time there as possible to see if it's for us. However, any other feedback/observations about Lake Arrowhead are welcome.

I can't think of any other place within 90 minutes of Orange County that offers what Arrowhead does in terms of peace and physical beauty and is still relatively affordable (besides Idyllwild). Let me know if there is another place worth considering. Thank you!

[gsteffens]

Hi OTea -

It sounds like you've spent a lot of time researching the area and you've done a great job! You're right....now is a FANTASTIC time to buy a home in the Lake Arrowhead area. Interest rates are incredible. For those with the means (down payment and good credit), this is likely going to be as good as it gets!

Since you seem to be quite thorough, I would assume that you are aware of the area (Arrowhead Woods) that has lake rights, versus the areas (i.e. Arrowhead Villas, Twin Peaks, Deer Lodge Park, Cedar Glen, Skyforest, etc) which do NOT have lake rights. If not, let me know and I can give you a more complete explanation.

Regarding the "drawbacks" that you listed:

1) Fog/wind can be difficult to drive in at certain times. I would say, though, that there are relatively few days (spread over the course of a year) that it is better/safer to just stay home than to venture out onto the roads. Mother Nature does what she wills, so the number of days obviously varies from year to year. If you will only be coming up when the weather is decent, there should be no problem! Once you live here full-time (as retired folks), you'll have more freedom to just stay home when the weather is poor.

2) Fire danger is certainly a concern since we live in the moutains/forest and there is really no way to get away from the trees. That is a risk that you will have to measure personally. I have lived in the mountains for over 40 years and have only had to evacuate due to fire twice (2003 Old Fire, 2007 Slide Fire). Keep in mind that these fires removed substantial amounts of undergrowth and trees (that, quite frankly, should have been removed long before the fires came), so these areas are less likely to have fires of the same magnitude again for some time.

Properties in the mountains are required to do an annual "weed abatement" to remove leaves/pineneedles/brush that could contribute to fire spread. Programs to thin trees and educate owners to defensible space around their homes has helped to considerable reduce fire danger in residential areas.

To put things into perspective, we have many, many more earthquakes than we do fires. Just FYI, we typically "feel" earthquakes much less than the people in the lowlands because we sit on a mountain of granite with absorbs alot of the movement. We often don't even know there has been an earthquake until we hear about it on the news.....

3) If/when you live here full-time after retirement, you'll probably find it best to own at least one 4-wheel drive vehicle. There are many times when there's enough snow/ice/weather to feel leery about driving a standard 2-wheel drive car, but not enough of the elements to warrant chains. A good, well-maintained (wipers, snow tires, etc) 4-wheel drive vehicle can handle just about anything you throw at it, as long you carry the proper essential equipment in it (snow chains, shovel, some traction aids, etc) and that you have the knowledge of how to drive in wet, snowy and/or icy conditions. If you'll be retired, though, it is probably best to stay indoors and off the streets until the snow plows clear the roads and they melt off a bit. You'll still need to use caution and common sense, but you should be fine.

4) Bark beetles exist in all forests, even the healthy ones. Unfortunately, the problems in our area were the result of a "perfect storm" of conditions. A tree's natural defense to bark beetles is to drown them in sap. Unfortunately, during the long drought we had at that time, the trees were unable to make enough sap to drown the beetles. As a result, the beetles mutiplied and moved from tree to tree...to tree...to tree, multiplying further as they moved, and the results were catastrophic. Since the drought is over and the forest, as a whole, is healthy again, the bark beetles have been reduced to their "normal" levels.

With regard to crime in San Bernardino, I would tell you that my wife typically does her Trader Joe's/Target/Costco shopping in the Redlands area. All the stores she frequents are close together in that area and the community is nice. From Lake Arrowhead, it is less than an hour away, so she usually does this trip once per week or so.

I hope that answers some of your questions and addresses some of your concerns. Moderator cut: see note I'm happy to share from my 40+ years as a mountain resident!

Take care,

Greg

[OTea]

Greg,

First of all – thank you so much for taking the time to address each of my concerns. This information is immensely helpful – especially coming from a 40+ years resident! It definitely helps provide a better perspective on the issues. As I know you appreciate, this is a big decision for us and I want to be sure we are considering it from all angles, especially since we have never lived up there or spent a significant amount of time there. However, the lower housing prices and historic low interest rates have definitely caught our attention.

I am familiar with Arrowhead Woods and that it has lake rights. Does this necessarily mean this is the most desirable area in which to purchase, especially if you are looking down the road at resale value? In addition, does this mean the properties in AW are more expensive per sq. ft., and are the HOA’s more – assuming there are HOA’s?

Right now, we are at the very beginning stages in the process and still need to figure out if Lake Arrowhead is right for us. We plan to spend a few weekends up there and try a vacation rental for a week or so, as well as visit in the winter months. In parallel, I am also looking daily at online listings to familiarize myself with the market and what you can get for the money. So far, so good, but I will let you know when we are ready to move forward with an agent.

Thank you kindly for your advice, counsel and feedback!

[gsteffens]

OTea -

Moderator cut: see note

You're welcome for the information.....glad to help! Please don't hesitate to ask me any questions that come up as you continue to spend time and get more familiar with the area.

Whether or not Arrowhead Woods is the "most desireable area" to buy a home is totally in the eyes of the beholder. I would say that, generally speaking, Arrowhead Woods properties have a higher resale than properties outside the boundary. I must really temper that by saying that there are some spectacular areas on the mountain that do not have lake rights....and some phenomenal homes in those areas!

Trying to gauge value by dollars per square foot is not always a reliable way to go. There are SO many factors that contribute to value which can't be ascertained by simply dividing the sales price by the square footage of the building/living area of the home.....no way to adequately account for things like view, topography, proximity to the lake, age of the dwelling, quality of the construction, usable yard, type/size of parking, etc.

Though there is an "HOA" of sorts in Arrowhead Woods, it is a user-based structure. In other words, if you want to put a boat on the lake, you pay a registration fee. If you want to use the private beach clubs, you pay for a membership. If you don't use any of these things, you don't pay anything. It isn't like a "traditional" HOA where you pay per month, quarterly or annually for things. Does that make sense?

Please let me know if I can help you find a nice place to stay when you come up here. I can make some recommendations for places to visit, restaurants to try, etc.

Thanks!

Greg

[gardeniabee]

Hello,

Please forgive my posting here with "reply" as I could not locate the New Thread button. And "New Posts" took me to other categories?

I have browsed the threads on Lake Arrowhead and nearby areas looking for comments about wildlife.
I've noticed mentions of small creatures, plus bear. But no deer?

Just curious since they are my favorite wildlife.
I'm thinking of retiring there and would be disappointed if I never saw any deer.
Maybe I should consider Forest Falls? or some other community?

Thanks for your response.

-----
update: I found a Mountain Animals website that lists Mule Deer. I'm wondering if you who live there see them often? Tell me about your experiences with wildlife.
Thanks again.

[gsteffens]

gardeniabee -

Deer in the area are not nearly as prevalent as they used to be (when I was growing up here). Most people rarely see them, but those people probably don't stray too from main/paved roads on a regular basis. Those who are out recreationg in the National Forest (or who live on the fringes) are likely to see them more often. People who mountain bike, hike, hunt, etc, see them more frequently......especially those who are out in the early morning and late evening hours when they are more active.

Hope that helps......

Greg

[OTea]

Originally Posted by gsteffens

Please let me know if I can help you find a nice place to stay when you come up here. I can make some recommendations for places to visit, restaurants to try, etc.

Hi Greg,

Thanks once again for the very helpful information.

One of the other issues I have been wondering about are the crime statistics – in particular, with regard to home burglaries. You would think this may be an issue since there are so many part-time residents, and Lake Arrowhead is just up the hill from San Bernardino and other high-crime areas. I know it would be imperative to have a home security system at a minimum, but is this enough?

Also, I would love to have some restaurant recommendations for Lake Arrowhead, including the Crestline area for when we do day trips to Arrowhead.

Thank you!

[Gandalara]

Originally Posted by OTea

Also, I would love to have some restaurant recommendations for Lake Arrowhead, including the Crestline area for when we do day trips to Arrowhead.

The Grill at Antler's Inn (Twin Peaks)
Don Pepe's (Running Springs)
Billy Bear's (Crestline)

[gsteffens]

OTea -

Crime, in my experience, has never been an issue. I've never experienced a break-in, nor have my folks who have lived up here since the early 60's.

Many people (especially those who are up here only part-time) have security systems installed and the peace of mind is worth the expense, I'd say.

In my personal opinion, this is a very safe place to live. Others might disagree, but that's my 2 cents..... The Mountain News (local newspaper) publishes a weekly crime log if you want to check that out......

Restaurant recommendations:
I agree with Gandalara about the Grill in Twin Peaks (this is likely my favorite restaurant on the mountain). I also like Casual Elegance (fine dining), the Belgian Waffle Works (casual dining on the waterfront in Lake Arrowhead Village......outdoor patio seating is nice in good weather), Papagayo's (casual mexican, also in the Village), the Crestline Cafe (casual.....used to be Paula's Place in Toptown Crestline) and Tony's (casual mexican in Crestline). I like Tony's mexican in Running Springs and Neo's Pizza. There's also a Rocky's Deli in both Skyforest and Running Springs that has GREAT sandwiches.

Hope that helps!

Greg

[OTea]

Once again, Greg...very helpful information. Thank you so much for your valuable time and feedback. We plan to try some of the restaurant recommendations soon (thanks also to Gandalara!).