What kind of quality of life can you have on $80,000/year for family of 4? (Encinitas: rent, mortgage)

[NYSD1995]

Originally Posted by tonyinsd

You can't do it because you want certain things. That doesn't mean it can't be done.

Yep. As long as you don't want one, some, or all of the following: your retirement, your child's college savings, public school quality, access to healthcare, the prospect of home ownership. Pick very carefully.

The OP didn't ask if it was possible - he asked about the quality of life he should expect. No one is saying it's impossible. I'm just telling him what the tradeoffs are. Just because tradeoffs don't seem important to you, that doesn't mean they aren't real. I'm just giving the OP a standard to measure, as the earlier poster said - it's up to them to choose what to give up - but they should know they're going to have to give up something big - not the kids stuff like entertainment, eating out and shopping - stuff that matters, like housing, education, healthcare, transportation.

Living one paycheck away from being thrown on the street is not the middle class dream in this country. Just because millions do it, doesn't mean that it's worth doing.

The American dream only seems like an illusion and a fantasy until you actually become able to obtain it. Once that happens, few would deliberately go backwards, and most will work like dogs to avoid slipping backwards.

[thepinksquid]

IMHO, the huge caveat for "what you can make it on" is whether or not you have kids, plain and simple. When you (or your spouse/SO) are only responsible for yourselves, things are a lot simpler.

[Think4Yourself]

At $80k you can easily live in a place like Santee (which is ~20 miles from the ocean but not ocean front), have a reasonably new car or two, save for retirement, and send your kids to reasonably good schools. You won't have the beach front mansion people dream of, you won't be in the best school district in the county, and you won't be living the high life but you could have a good middle class life style. Yes, in Iowa you'd get 5 acres for half the price or in Texas you'd get a larger house for half the price but the weather will still be much better, the quality of life will still be pretty darn good, and you'll likely have better shopping & restaurant choices while your job opportunities will still be better than most areas. No, you won't have a new BMW every two years, no you won't have acres of land, nor will you likely be able to afford a live in maid but none of that is really part of the American middle class dream. I'd say go for it.

[ragnarkar]

It'll be pretty rough.. especially with kids (since you don't have the option of living in a dump to save on housing.) A new car is definitely out of the question.. if you can tolerate driving 10+ year old cars that are reliable point A to point B vehicles, I guess it's doable.

[earlyretirement]

Originally Posted by Sassberto

There are also many families who got in long before the boom, and are military / semi-retired / government employees living in neighborhoods they could never afford to buy into today. That one of the paradoxes of San Diego, you'll have plenty pf people making 60k/yr living in basic Point Loma ranch homes that they bought for 200k and cost 800k now

Oh YES this is an EXCELLENT point to keep in mind. I've met several people in the SD area since moving here last year that flat out told me if they didn't buy their homes here many years ago when real estate was cheaper, there is no way they could afford the properties at today's prices.

It doesn't matter what prices were like before....it matters what they cost today. Even with the tremendous correction in real estate prices after the bubble bursted, real estate here is relatively expensive and I'm fairly confident that prices here will surpass peak prices. It could take 15 years or more but I'm confident that prices here when people are contemplating retirement or getting older, real estate prices will be much higher than they are today.

With a desirable city like San Diego, you're always going to have strong demand for quality properties in quality areas in good school districts. So unfortunately it's never going to be a cheap city to live in if you're looking for the middle class "dream" as a parent. Never.

[shmoov_groovzsd]

Originally Posted by earlyretirement

Oh YES this is an EXCELLENT point to keep in mind. I've met several people in the SD area since moving here last year that flat out told me if they didn't buy their homes here many years ago when real estate was cheaper, there is no way they could afford the properties at today's prices.

It doesn't matter what prices were like before....it matters what they cost today. Even with the tremendous correction in real estate prices after the bubble bursted, real estate here is relatively expensive and I'm fairly confident that prices here will surpass peak prices. It could take 15 years or more but I'm confident that prices here when people are contemplating retirement or getting older, real estate prices will be much higher than they are today.

With a desirable city like San Diego, you're always going to have strong demand for quality properties in quality areas in good school districts. So unfortunately it's never going to be a cheap city to live in if you're looking for the middle class "dream" as a parent. Never.

Precisely. That is almost guaranteed. The areas that dont fit the above model are suspect to potential worsening unless there are conscious sustainable efforts put in place now. I see it here where I live and its a reminder to me that we are still in a hole in regards to jobs. LG still has one of the highest unemployment rates in the county above 10% and the childhood obesity rates are the highest in the County. I feel extremely fortunate to be in the position I am in, yet, when helping these folks, they are still pretty optimistic and are taking it in stride. But even that can only last so long without seeing any progress on the jobs front.

The split between the haves and have not type communities will most definitely widen if things dont change in the next decade to 15 years. 80k/yr on a family 4 I imagine is not sustainable to have a quality cost of living. There are families that live here for less and if they had the oppt, would not want to be in that situation.
I am pretty optimistic that the middle class will gain some strength again in SD, but will ALWAYS be the most susceptible to change in tide with economic up shifts/downshifts.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by earlyretirement

BINGO! People that don't have kids can't even pretend to know what it's like or what is and isn't important. I can tell you that until I had kids, I was totally clueless what kind of responsibility being a parent is. When you're single with no kids, you have the luxury to not have to think about things like good school districts and the like. NOT so once you have kids.

AGREE 100%. When I was single, I used to try to relate to parents by comparing my pets with their children. LOL! Now I find it really funny when my single friends compare their pets to my children, because what little comparisons may exist are very thin.

Long before we were married, my now wife bought a house she could afford in a decent enough neighborhood for a single person. However, now that we are married with children, we realized that the neighborhood schools are not the greatest. Certain properties in our neighborhood are a tad bit dumpy, but overall it's a nice, safe place. We have great neighbors who own their homes. However, now we're faced with the prospect of moving to a new neighborhood and taking on a substantially larger mortgage because of the schools. Schools were not even on the radar when my wife bought the home as a single person. If they were, she would have bought a home in different neighborhood with better schools for sure.

Singles, DINKS - Do your best to purchase your home/condo in the best school district you can reasonably afford. It helps with resale and also means a lower likelihood of moving once children enter into the equation (unless of course you want to move).

[shmoov_groovzsd]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

AGREE 100%. When I was single, I used to try to relate to parents by comparing my pets with their children. LOL! Now I find it really funny when my single friends compare their pets to my children, because what little comparisons may exist are very thin.

Long before we were married, my now wife bought a house she could afford in a decent enough neighborhood for a single person. However, now that we are married with children, we realized that the neighborhood schools are not the greatest. Certain properties in our neighborhood are a tad bit dumpy, but overall it's a nice, safe place. We have great neighbors who own their homes. However, now we're faced with the prospect of moving to a new neighborhood and taking on a substantially larger mortgage because of the schools. Schools were not even on the radar when my wife bought the home as a single person. If they were, she would have bought a home in different neighborhood with better schools for sure.

Singles, DINKS - Do your best to purchase your home/condo in the best school district you can reasonably afford. It helps with resale and also means a lower likelihood of moving once children enter into the equation (unless of course you want to move).

I dont know how much of this applies in some parts of San Diego near the city, but generally in the burbs, yes. We are DINKs and definitely didnt didnt buy where we did for the schools or necessarily resale value either. Actually your situation sounds somewhat similar to ours, lots of owners but some dumpy houses and some well kept. We also didnt buy based on 'what ifs' like babies, schools etc.
When that happens, we will deal with it then

We moved here for other reasons which may be political as well as 'trying out' the SFH lifestyle (I was raised in and lived in apartments my whole life). Our current house is a guinea pig lol...so far we are 50/50 and I can see the advantages/disadvantages to both.

But I digress because this is certainly not the norm for folks I know that look to buy homes.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

We've made over 120K pretty consistently over the last 10 years and it's NEVER been to the point we have a lot of spare cash in the bank. Our house is in Bay Park, was built in 1960 and was a complete mess when we bought it. It's taken me 10+ years of hard labor to make it nice. We have never had new cars. We no longer use private schools for the kids. We shell out a lot for medical even with work paying for most of it. We have a couple of used toys like a travel trailer so we can do vacations on the cheap. We don't eat out but a couple times a month.

That said, the couple years the wife was unemployed we were going downhill VERY FAST as in tapping 401ks and IRAs. No way we'd have been able to live like we are on 80. Kids will chew through your bank account so fast you'll be in shock. Braces, injuries, having to put them into the Y during summer.
If you think you can own a home in a decent area, have multiple children, deal with the usual emergencies like (a. a pipe bursting, b. medical problem, c. car engine replacement, d.insert any type of credit card debt due the above you are being extremely unrealistic. Everyone I know that has lower paying jobs and still lives like that gets help from Mommy and Daddy. This ain't happenin for everyone.
I can't wait for Brown to cut the school year by 3 more weeks (sarcasm).

[logdrum]

Two car payments on 80K seems pretty reckless anywhere in the USA, but what do I know, never bought a car that cost 10% of my gross income. But I thought myself to wrench except for some major stuff. The kids are driving now so got them used VWs and Toyotas, nothing more than 4K. Daughter helps me with oil and filter changes, replacing brakes. She's not a tomboy in fact a cheer leader but that was the deal if she drove her own car. I drive an old Toyota pickup to work if I don't have time to cycle. It only has an FM/AM radio but ultra reliable.