Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hello, I am writing this to this forum because I am searching into what I should do about what my family and I have experinced during family weekend. This incident took place today around 12:53pm at the club house in Warner Springs Ranch, in Warner Springs. My father in law invited me and my husband to golf weekend at this ranch over the weekend. This place is quite popular in the Korean American community here in Orange County and as well as San Diego because despite its deteriorated state and shabbiness, it offers golf and hot springs, both very popular among first generation Korean Americans. Before leaving the Warner Springs Ranch me, my husband, my sister-in-law and her husabnd decided to have lunch at the club house by the golf course. We walked in but nobody sat us down so we had to sit ourselves down. Please keep in mind that there were two caucasian servers ( female) and one male (hispanic) server serving this small club house. It was NOT busy time and there were only about three or four tables with customers. We tried making eye contacts with the Caucasian waitresses who were serving BOTH tables around us but she OVERTLY looked away in order to ignore us. When we signaled or waved to get attention she walked away into the kitchen with the other Caucacian waittress. Finally about 10 minutes later a Hispanic waitor ( I dont even think he is a server, he is a "busboy" who was called to come out of the kitchen to deal with us) who took our order. My face was getting red with humiliation as I continued to witness these TWO Caucasian waitresses approaching other new tables right beside us and behind us smiling and with so much promptness and professionalism. The last time I dined at this club house with my parents-in-law I thought that I was being too sensitive as I wanted to believe that they were just busy. But when I suspicion was confimed by my husband and my sister-in-law, I knew that they were refusing to serve because we are Asians. I started making observations on how the division of service and labor was done and saw that when one Hispanic couple came in to dine, again, the Hispanic bus boy (name that I can not disclose for his protection) was sent out of the kitchen to serve this couple. The Operations Manager defended this by saying that it could have been because the buyboy speaks Spanish and the couple speaks Spanish. My husband and I pointed out that the couple were actually speaking in English only with no accent at all.
I grew up here in Irvine for high school and college with no prior experience of racism. Finally today I got to experience raciam and discrimination first hand at this place. It shattered so much dreams and aspirations I had since I was a little girl and I was ashamed for being weak and taking this in. I was scared to ask them why they refused service. My husband thought that he should talk to the General Manager at the ranch but only got to talk to the Operations Manager who only told us she would look into it.
Me including my husband grew up here and we have been americanized enough to tell whether or not one is simply busy or one refuses service. It almost seemed as if the two Caucaisn waittresses WANTED us to know that they did NOT want to serve us. They were overtly being freindly and approaching all the tables around us except ours. They were so UNOCCUPIED that they were holding menus with them just standing next to other empty tables to sit White customers down. What should I do? I have asked around my parents and their friends who are NOT fluent in English but have been going to the Warner Springs Ranch and they all acknowldge that they experience same racism and discrimination. However, they are NOT culturally assimilated into the mainstream and they say they just accept it as a fact. I cant go on with my life as if nothing happened to me knowing that my own parents have been treated this way and how the rest of the older generation immigrants of Asian American communities have been treated this way at this place. I would love to get some advise and comments on what can be done other just having a personal talk with the management ( which we already did, but she merely apologized for any inconveniennces and did not even ask for our contact information). Please help.
I am Filipina; born in the Philippines but raised in the US by very traditional parents. My parents have always spoken about being discriminated against to varying degrees. I didn't really believe it until I came home from college and went to the local mall with my mother in NY. I could not believe how she was blatantly ignored by a salesgirl while all the caucasians were given prompt service. I went straight to management. We never went back to that store again.
I have only been subjected to overt racism/discrimination twice in my life. Once, I was at a "schmooze" dinner for my boss where the CEO's wife said to me, "You're from NY? Well, you're not really colored...how did you feel about playing with those coloreds in the street when you were a child?" I answered as politely as I could because of my boss (I was always "representing him" so everything I said/did reflected off of him). He heard the exchange & was livid. What was a "sure thing" for this company turned out to be a big fat goose egg because my boss refused to work with them.
Another time, I was politely asked if I wanted to eat in the kitchen while my boss ate in the dining room with the other guests (at a B & B). I was stunned! My boss delivered one quiet but scathing speech to the B & B owner. Two years later, we were invited to stay at the B & B owner's house & I was treated like a queen. I can say that those people were contrite and embarrassed by posing the question and have been gracious to me ever since.
I remember thinking long ago "so...this is what my parents have been talking about - people addressing you like you're a simpleton or treating you like you're less than they are because you're not white or because you have an accent." I remember thinking with indignation "I have more breeding and education than you can fit into your over-done mansion". My father always said that in terms of discrimination, you should always choose which battles are worth a fight & which are better left alone.
I would argue with my dad over this but he always has maintained that sometimes, it's not worth getting into an argument over. You can talk until the cows come home & the person you're trying to get to understand you will never come around.
I guess you can approach this in a number of different ways. My first inclination would be to address this with the GM of the ranch. The GM may be unaware of the overt discrimination that is exhibited by the wait staff. It would only be fair to give the management a chance to rectify the situation (an apology from those waitresses or their dismissal or lifetime membership or some other perk).
If you do not feel that upper management's response is satisfactory then decide how much further you want to go. Is it a letter to the editor of your local paper or a phone call to your local TV/radio stations?
See if you can get the Korean-American community to boycott the club...particularly your generation. It might be harder to get the older generation on board with this idea but if you can end the patronage of this club by K-A's with your parents generation, the club will at least not have the next generation to make money off of.
I've very sorry that you had to experience this. It's shocking. It's hurtful. And it's unbelievable that it still happens in our learned, modern, civilized society. And I think that unless one lives in a completely sterile environment, we all will experience discrimination to a certain degree - white, black, asian, european, gay, lesbian, trans-gender, female, uneducated. You can keep beating yourself up with guilt for not being more vocal today or you can let that feeling go and do something else with what you experienced today.
Perhaps you can use this new awareness to be proactive about cultivating relationships and understanding for the Korean-American community. But not everyone is cut out to be an activist and there's NOTHING wrong with that but you can still take this knowledge and use it to enrich your life and your relationships with others.
ETA: Sorry - I got carried away & hope that was not too preachy. That was just my experience. I'm lucky to not have experienced a whole lot of discrimination/racism so my suggestions are really on a small scale.
Last edited by Sampaguita; 04-30-2007 at 01:01 AM..
Reason: ETA
As a Black American, I feel your pain and frustration. Having to endure discrimination of this kind at all is abominable. Whether it happens once or 10 times, it's still wrong. I also had deluded myself into believing that I was equal in the world's, and that racism was passe. Racism and discrimination is a disease people catch when they come to America.
racism is taught to people as a child, there are no born racist
Quote:
Originally Posted by VRS1122
Hello, I am writing this to this forum because I am searching into what I should do about what my family and I have experinced during family weekend. This incident took place today around 12:53pm at the club house in Warner Springs Ranch, in Warner Springs. My father in law invited me and my husband to golf weekend at this ranch over the weekend. This place is quite popular in the Korean American community here in Orange County and as well as San Diego because despite its deteriorated state and shabbiness, it offers golf and hot springs, both very popular among first generation Korean Americans. Before leaving the Warner Springs Ranch me, my husband, my sister-in-law and her husabnd decided to have lunch at the club house by the golf course. We walked in but nobody sat us down so we had to sit ourselves down. Please keep in mind that there were two caucasian servers ( female) and one male (hispanic) server serving this small club house. It was NOT busy time and there were only about three or four tables with customers. We tried making eye contacts with the Caucasian waitresses who were serving BOTH tables around us but she OVERTLY looked away in order to ignore us. When we signaled or waved to get attention she walked away into the kitchen with the other Caucacian waittress. Finally about 10 minutes later a Hispanic waitor ( I dont even think he is a server, he is a "busboy" who was called to come out of the kitchen to deal with us) who took our order. My face was getting red with humiliation as I continued to witness these TWO Caucasian waitresses approaching other new tables right beside us and behind us smiling and with so much promptness and professionalism. The last time I dined at this club house with my parents-in-law I thought that I was being too sensitive as I wanted to believe that they were just busy. But when I suspicion was confimed by my husband and my sister-in-law, I knew that they were refusing to serve because we are Asians. I started making observations on how the division of service and labor was done and saw that when one Hispanic couple came in to dine, again, the Hispanic bus boy (name that I can not disclose for his protection) was sent out of the kitchen to serve this couple. The Operations Manager defended this by saying that it could have been because the buyboy speaks Spanish and the couple speaks Spanish. My husband and I pointed out that the couple were actually speaking in English only with no accent at all.
I grew up here in Irvine for high school and college with no prior experience of racism. Finally today I got to experience raciam and discrimination first hand at this place. It shattered so much dreams and aspirations I had since I was a little girl and I was ashamed for being weak and taking this in. I was scared to ask them why they refused service. My husband thought that he should talk to the General Manager at the ranch but only got to talk to the Operations Manager who only told us she would look into it.
Me including my husband grew up here and we have been americanized enough to tell whether or not one is simply busy or one refuses service. It almost seemed as if the two Caucaisn waittresses WANTED us to know that they did NOT want to serve us. They were overtly being freindly and approaching all the tables around us except ours. They were so UNOCCUPIED that they were holding menus with them just standing next to other empty tables to sit White customers down. What should I do? I have asked around my parents and their friends who are NOT fluent in English but have been going to the Warner Springs Ranch and they all acknowldge that they experience same racism and discrimination. However, they are NOT culturally assimilated into the mainstream and they say they just accept it as a fact. I cant go on with my life as if nothing happened to me knowing that my own parents have been treated this way and how the rest of the older generation immigrants of Asian American communities have been treated this way at this place. I would love to get some advise and comments on what can be done other just having a personal talk with the management ( which we already did, but she merely apologized for any inconveniennces and did not even ask for our contact information). Please help.
i'am white and 74 years of age and my father always taught me that it is hard enough just being a human without all of the stupid racist people that were taught to be dumb and taught that they were better than any other race other than white, what a backward way of thinking and being a racist is. we were all created equal as the bible teaches.
This is the most rediculous posts I have ever seen to date. This is not racism, it's poor service. It happens to EVERYONE, maybe you shouldn't seat yourselves in a non self seating resturant. Anyone who has ever worked in a sit down resturant knows that there are sections that waiters are to serve, if a section is closed which means there is no waiter in that particular section then your not going to be served, which is why you wait to be seated and you don't seat yourself, trust me my and every other host's biggest pet peeve is customers seating themselves, no matter what color you are. Also when you came in more then likely the waiters were changing shifts which even though it doesn't look like it, it is a very hectic time in a resturant.
"Finally about 10 minutes later a Hispanic waitor ( I dont even think he is a server, he is a "busboy" who was called to come out of the kitchen to deal with us) who took our order."
alright...
a) 10 minutes is not that long of a wait
b) why do you assume he is a busboy? is it because he's hispanic? hmm that comment sounds a little racist to me.
Were you ever actually refused service or did you just get poor service? To me it sounds like you are just making assumptions. These are not cases of racism, this same thing has happend to me numerous times. People like you who pull the race card every chance they get are not just part of the problem, you are the problem. Me and two of my friends were literally told to leave a Denny's in Washington D.C. that was all black, what was the managers reason? "We didn't belong in there neighborhood", and if I made a post about that I would be a racist, but I'm supposed to feel bad for you when you think that you were a "victim", but really you were just another obnoxious customer that think the world revolves around you. I'm sorry but in a world where Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton can tell me what I can and can't listen to on the radio, and in a world where I can be much more qualified then someone at a specific job, but they get the job because they are a minority I don't buy your pathetic attempt for pity. You have the same if not more opportunities than I do in this country and I'm sick of your sob stories about "how the person in front of you in the line at the grocery store was white and you werent allowed to cut them because your a minority, boo hoo boo hoo". Equality doesn't mean you get more then me because your a minority, it means you get the same, why don't people understand that??
As a Black American, I feel your pain and frustration. Having to endure discrimination of this kind at all is abominable. Whether it happens once or 10 times, it's still wrong. I also had deluded myself into believing that I was equal in the world's, and that racism was passe. Racism and discrimination is a disease people catch when they come to America.
You need to get out in the world my friend. I have lived in Austria, Germany and Australia. I have also traveled through most of Europe and if you think there is racism in the US try living else where. This country is more tolerant than almost anyplace in the world. If you look for racism or prejudices hard enough you will find it anywhere you want.
This is the most rediculous posts I have ever seen to date. This is not racism, it's poor service. It happens to EVERYONE, maybe you shouldn't seat yourselves in a non self seating resturant. Anyone who has ever worked in a sit down resturant knows that there are sections that waiters are to serve, if a section is closed which means there is no waiter in that particular section then your not going to be served, which is why you wait to be seated and you don't seat yourself, trust me my and every other host's biggest pet peeve is customers seating themselves, no matter what color you are. Also when you came in more then likely the waiters were changing shifts which even though it doesn't look like it, it is a very hectic time in a resturant.
"Finally about 10 minutes later a Hispanic waitor ( I dont even think he is a server, he is a "busboy" who was called to come out of the kitchen to deal with us) who took our order."
alright...
a) 10 minutes is not that long of a wait
b) why do you assume he is a busboy? is it because he's hispanic? hmm that comment sounds a little racist to me.
Were you ever actually refused service or did you just get poor service? To me it sounds like you are just making assumptions. These are not cases of racism, this same thing has happend to me numerous times. People like you who pull the race card every chance they get are not just part of the problem, you are the problem. Me and two of my friends were literally told to leave a Denny's in Washington D.C. that was all black, what was the managers reason? "We didn't belong in there neighborhood", and if I made a post about that I would be a racist, but I'm supposed to feel bad for you when you think that you were a "victim", but really you were just another obnoxious customer that think the world revolves around you. I'm sorry but in a world where Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton can tell me what I can and can't listen to on the radio, and in a world where I can be much more qualified then someone at a specific job, but they get the job because they are a minority I don't buy your pathetic attempt for pity. You have the same if not more opportunities than I do in this country and I'm sick of your sob stories about "how the person in front of you in the line at the grocery store was white and you werent allowed to cut them because your a minority, boo hoo boo hoo". Equality doesn't mean you get more then me because your a minority, it means you get the same, why don't people understand that??
STOP CRYING AND GROW UP!!!!!
Billy, your post sounds very bitter and angry. The fact that you were refused service in Washington, D.C. because of your race should tell you that racism does exist and that it is a problem. Also, everyone has not had the experience of being a waiter, so many people don't know they are sitting in an area that is not served by waiters. And as a waiter, if you were courteous you would politely let them know they are in area not served by waiters, instead of waiting for them to "figure it out" on their own. And did you notice at all that it wasn't just the OP's experience, it was the experience of other people she knew, on separate occasions? What happened to you in the Denny's restaurant was wrong, and what happened to the OP was wrong, because BOTH instances were based on race. And you should be able to complain about your experience just like the OP did without being labeled a racist. Perhaps you don't notice racism very much because it doesn't happen to you as often as it does to people of color. But when it does happen, you should talk about it and how it made you feel, instead of attacking people with insulting posts when they talk about how it made them feel. Sounds like you have some growing up to do as well. Racism is wrong no matter what color you are when it happens to you, we should not be criticized for calling attention to it.
If you look for racism or prejudices hard enough you will find it anywhere you want.
I wasn't looking for racism or discrimination, it just happened and it felt like a slap in the face. Despite what you may think, minorities don't go around looking for racism or discrimination, it happens to the successful businessperson on down to the cashier at the grocery store. It's much more painful when you believe you are equal, and then something happens to remind you that you're not. I'm sure you have felt some discrimination and racism in your travels around the world, so you should know how much it can hurt when it happens to you.
I've seated myself before (they sat me in a crappy seat, I moved to a better one) and the same thing happened to me.
Billy is probably right on this one. There are like codes the food workers expect you to follow, and when you don't, they get irritated with you and blow you off.
When you have little kids, this happens alot. They will stick you in the worse part of the joint....you get up and move to a better spot, they ignore you.
Just yesterday, a sweet Korean man who
runs a little market here in Salem OR
told me he had lived in Chicago and it
was terrible, terrible, terrible.
He shook his head in horror of remembrance
of whatever took place there.
You should feel right at home there with your
attitude that minorities (so- called because they
are not pure blooded English/Irish/ Norwegian/
Danish/ etc.) .... are simply imagining poor
treatment by the bigoted waitresses in this
nation.
A study was done some years back where a
Caucasian put on makeup and assumed the
persona of a person of another race.
It was a sad story of mistreatment and
verbal abuse.
This nation has not become Utopia, where all
people are treated with respect and compassion
and care for their welfare.
If it had become such an idyllic existence,
we would not be in the clutches of murders,
rapes, kidnappings, assaults, burglaries,
car jackings, robberies, ad infinitum..
ad nausum.
If anyone needs to live in Chicago, it is
certainly you.
Remember that old saying..'What goes
around, comes around.'
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I answered as politely as I could because of my boss (I was always "representing him" so everything I said/did reflected off of him). He heard the exchange & was livid. What was a "sure thing" for this company turned out to be a big fat goose egg because my boss refused to work with them.
racism is taught to people as a child, there are no born racist
