Is anyone else angry about the mandatory paper-bag charge? (San Francisco: rental, mover)

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

So now I believe there is a ballot measure that all monies collected from bag sales will go into an environmental fund and leave the stores...

I wonder if the grocer association will still be pleased?

It was not all that long ago that environmentalist urged plastic over paper to Save trees...

It really is getting down to the flavor of the week in so many things which is sad.

I think most environmentally-conscious people (such as myself) would actually urge the use of reusable bags, not paper or plastic.

Sure, it's less convenient, but I've probably saved hundreds, or even thousands, of bags over the years by using reusable bags (I did this by choice before even moving to CA). Multiply that out by thousands/millions of people, and you can see how reduction in waste of one-use bags could happen.

[Ultrarunner]

I always re purpose... the plastic bags especially.

I used them for small waste can liners... now I have to buy the liners and the plastic is much heavier than needed.

In 4 weeks I cannot fill a mini 20 gallon Waste management container... some of my neighbor have 64 or even 96 gallons going out each week.

2300 square foot home on 70 gallons of water per day, 12 kWh electricity per day and less than 20 gallons of trash in a month...

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I always re purpose... the plastic bags especially.

I used them for small waste can liners... now I have to buy the liners and the plastic is much heavier than needed.

In 4 weeks I cannot fill a mini 20 gallon Waste management container... some of my neighbor have 64 or even 96 gallons going out each week.

2300 square foot home on 70 gallons of water per day, 12 kWh electricity per day and less than 20 gallons of trash in a month...

Ah...we are kindred spirits...we go about 50 gallons, and there are two of us. With cats, we have more trash. But we never put out a full 20 gallon, and half of that is cat waste.

I've used my own bags from the very second I found out I got a discount for using my own bags. It was literally pennies...five of them a bag brought in, but in my mind money is money and pennies add up to dollars. That's gone away now, but I still prefer my own rip stop bags, they fold up nice and flat and are easy to shove into a pocket or my purse...which by the way I also made.

I wash them after every use.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by nowhereman427

So did you enjoy your stay in California?

I enjoyed the 9-10 days at South Lake Tahoe/Reno/Carson City. I've been a frequent North Shore visitor, but I hadn't spent that much time at the South Shore since the 1970s, IIRC. I hadn't been to Reno since 2009, IIRC, and I had never done more than drive through Carson City at night.

Re the other trip, I was there mostly just taking care of some unfinished business (I'm an East Bay native). I did however explore Livermore more than in the past, and enjoyed that. I also explored parts of the Central Valley (vineyards around Lodi, different parts of Stockton, etc) that I hadn't visited before, and enjoyed that as well.

[Ultrarunner]

South Shore near Stateline has changed some... a lot of the motels were taken out.

The Gold Country Highway 49 is something I like exploring too...

[nowhereman427]

Originally Posted by RMESMH

I enjoyed the 9-10 days at South Lake Tahoe/Reno/Carson City. I've been a frequent North Shore visitor, but I hadn't spent that much time at the South Shore since the 1970s, IIRC. I hadn't been to Reno since 2009, IIRC, and I had never done more than drive through Carson City at night.

Re the other trip, I was there mostly just taking care of some unfinished business (I'm an East Bay native). I did however explore Livermore more than in the past, and enjoyed that. I also explored parts of the Central Valley (vineyards around Lodi, different parts of Stockton, etc) that I hadn't visited before, and enjoyed that as well.

If you have to commute from those areas like central valley, Stockton or Livermore to SF bay area or Silicone Valley it is now a virtual nightmare.
The chaos from SF is now spreading throughout the 9 bay area counties so Livermore is expensive now but not as much as SF where a fixer upper house will cost you a million. Rentals of studio apartments will run $3,000+ per month. (this is from a resident point of view)

As a visitor it's different but you still pay more here and get less for your $$$$ and end up in never ending traffic gridlock.

I would consider Nevada, Wyoming, Montana and maybe Idaho to retire.

[Ultrarunner]

Pressures of modern urban living and more people.

It's not hard to remember even a few years back when daily life was not so regulated.

Go back 5 or 6 years and traffic was a breeze just about anywhere in the Bay Area compared to now.

In my little part of the East Bay there are plenty of vacant storefronts with some being vacant for years...

For whatever reason there are plenty willing to tell others how they should live in the Bay Area and the Bag Charge is just one more in a long list here in Alameda County.

And... my point is not everyone that gets bags is required to pay for them... which begs the question of why?

[Tallysmom]

I think a lot of times the clerk is lazy or sticking it to someone. When we still had plastic bags in use, I was in a line where a contest was taking place. The contest appeared to be how many plastic bags could the bagger use while the checker checked. So I walked out with a single item bagged in eight plastic bags. Holding my own bag, unused. And apparently I was the only one who didn't find this hilarious...

[neutrino78x]

Plastic bags are a real environmental concern. There are large patches of garbage in the oceans; much of it is plastic, including plastic grocery bags.

Great Pacific Garbage Patch - National Geographic Society

So, this is no joke. Even paper bags are an issue in terms of wasted resources, but at least a paper bag is biodegradable.

People who claim there is no benefit should do some reading on the subject, from credible sources (not Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh).

[neutrino78x]

Check out this article on the NOAA web site showing plastic bottle caps that were apparently eaten by a baby albatross (two young to be able to fly) on Midway Atoll, 2000 miles from any mainland.

How Big Is the "Great Pacific Garbage Patch"? Science vs. Myth | response.restoration.noaa.gov

So yeah, plastic pollution is no joke.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...acific-debris/

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...50_634x420.jpg

http://www.worldculturepictorial.com...astic-bags.jpg