Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Interesting, I don't see a ton of overlap but definitely areas that have burned twice in the last 5-20 years. I would think maybe the rate of spread might be lower in those areas previously burned possibly.
Also check out the southern sierra.
I think previously burned areas may prevent rapid spreading of fires in those areas, but big picture is that if something hasn't been scorched in the last 20 years, it can easily spread quickly.
Like how are controlled burns going to do much? Small burn areas aren't going to stop these massive fires that can just spread right around the little controlled burns.
I mean, if we could do controlled burns where we burn 100 yard wide lines in a grid across wildernesses, that could stop spreading of a fire, but I'm guessing we don't have the technology to be so precise and have such control over a small footprint.
I would have never thought a neighborhood like that on the valley floor would burn down like it did, it's always been rural or hilly places before. I never thought a wildfire could reach my neighborhood in Concord, now I'm not so sure. Luckily it's mostly just grassy hills near me so I don't think those burn nearly as intensely and can spread as many embers but who knows.
You need to read about the prairie fires in the Midwest, to find out how hot grass can burn, and how fast the fires can move to engulf towns. It's the stuff of nightmares.
So, basically, to other states with wildfire issues? NV may not burn, because there isn't much there to burn in the first place, but they're the first to get the smoke from fires in the Sierra range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaNative2
ETA I know many government workers who relocate when retiring to a state with no state tax, or lower state tax to net more money from pension.
It's weird how people who work in those jobs always want everyone else to pay taxes to support their income...but then when they retire....they bail so they don't have to pay!
So, basically, to other states with wildfire issues? NV may not burn, because there isn't much there to burn in the first place, but they're the first to get the smoke from fires in the Sierra range.
Lower cost of living definitely plays a factor in relocating to those states. I’d say the fires and smoke are secondary reason. We just relocated out of CA last month as we needed a bigger house due to spouse working from home. We would have had to pay around $1m to get a 4 bedroom home in our least desired area which was not debt we felt comfortable taking on at our age with two young children.
It's weird how people who work in those jobs always want everyone else to pay taxes to support their income...but then when they retire....they bail so they don't have to pay!
Quite selfish, tbh.
I mistakenly was under the impression that retired Californians had to pay our state tax, was shocked to learn that it depends on the state they live. Good for those states, but not CA.
I desperately want to move out of state but my wife wants to stay till our kids are in middle school at least. Even then, I don't think she wants to move. This is really bumming me out as I'm really sensitive to the smoke and can't deal with it any more. My preference is either NY, probably a suburb close to NYC or Oahu. I love living in SF and grew up in Southern California. I'm grieving for my state.
I desperately want to move out of state but my wife wants to stay till our kids are in middle school at least. Even then, I don't think she wants to move. This is really bumming me out as I'm really sensitive to the smoke and can't deal with it any more. My preference is either NY, probably a suburb close to NYC or Oahu. I love living in SF and grew up in Southern California. I'm grieving for my state.
I would think your health considerations would be a top priority. Would you be able to get a job in the NYC area? And have you experimented with a better furnace filter? My brother said he did, and it really helped.
This is sad, OP. So much beauty, going up in smoke, literally!
I would think your health considerations would be a top priority. Would you be able to get a job in the NYC area? And have you experimented with a better furnace filter? My brother said he did, and it really helped.
This is sad, OP. So much beauty, going up in smoke, literally!
LoL. I probably need a marriage therapist at this point. It doesn't bother her as much so it's hard for her to understand my reaction to flee. We bought some new filters that do seem to offset some of the smoky indoor air, in addition to purchasing air purifiers for pretty much every room. I could probably get a job in NYC. We both have family and friends there as well. It will be a labor of love to move with us having get jobs, sell the house, and move with two children under 5.
Thank you all for your responses, and thank you Ruth4Truth and for posting that excellent link. I was aware of the ProPublica data before, but I think everyone should study it. I was surprised to see that so many of the most climate-proof places to live (including #1 in the US) are in Vermont.
However, I have decided to move to Bellingham, WA in the near future, on the coast of Western Washington, a 20 minute drive from Canada. This probably sounds counter-intuitive, since one of my major concerns is how to escape wildfire smoke, and for the past four years smoke from California and Oregon has blown up to Washington, and in recent years has blown down from British Columbia into Washington. However, I think it's important to consider overall quality of life throughout the year; not just during wildfire season. As a result, I considered these factors for a few top potential locations:
Michigan, Minnesota, Upstate NY and Vermont
1.) Weather throughout the year
Winter – often below freezing or in the 10’s with 4-6 feet of snow. Overcast, dreary, unremitting.
Spring – Although this is a lovely season for about 1.5 months, the other half of the season is overcast and they call it “Mud Season” for a reason. When at least 4 feet of snow melts, it creates quite a mud puddle, which doesn’t dry while the weather is rainy and overcast. Still, spring is often one of the loveliest times in these places.
Summer – the moment you waited for during the long, dreary winter. Now it’s hot…but it’s too hot, and humid as well, and there are lots of mosquitoes and ticks that carry diseases, as well as black flies which slice open your skin and drink your blood. I will note, however, that summers in Vermont and Upstate NY are milder and less humid than those in the upper Midwest. Wildfires are rare except for the upper right-hand tip of Minnesota.
Fall – Beautiful. A bit cold, rains sometimes, snows later in the season, but probably the most livable season all the way through.
2.) Insects and the Diseases They Carry
There are ticks that carry Lyme Disease, LOTS of mosquitoes (some carrying West Nile, Zika and Equine Encephalitis), black flies which cut open your skin and drink your blood and not infrequently fly up your nose. In Minnesota there have been a significant number of cases of Powassan virus, which is transmitted by ticks and often causes death. Maine and Upstate NY are some of the worst places for Lyme ticks, mosquitoes and black flies. I am one of those people who gets bit by mosquitoes far more than the average person, so avoiding them is a priority for me, especially if they're likely to carry serious diseases.
By contrast, Western Washington State has:
1.) Milder weather then the Midwest/East Coast
I know it can be very overcast much of the year. I lived in Seattle for a year and I know how the longing for sunlight can begin to feel like a physical pain. However, I would take that any day over the more unpleasant weather and insect issues described above. Also, much of the gloom can be mitigated with full-spectrum lighting. It snows, but not much near the coast. There is also black ice at times each winter. Still, I’d take a winter in Western Washington State any day over winter in the Midwest or the East Coast.
Also, due to global warming, Washington summers are getting hotter and sunnier, with 10-20 days in the 90’s or low 100's in some places, especially on the east side of the Cascades. Sadly, the east side of the Cascades often have wildfires as a result.
2.) Far Fewer Insects in General, and Very Few that Carry Diseases
Washington has very few mosquitoes and almost no cases of Lyme Disease. I have Lyme Disease from a tick bite I received as a child which was never properly treated for two decades and is therefore very difficult to cure. As a result, I take the potential to contract it again very seriously. It mutates and Lyme ticks often carry different coinfections, so I know I’m not immune. I also want to have a cat and wouldn’t feel safe letting it out of the house because they tend to pick up ticks and bring them inside. I can deal with being careful to avoid ticks outside, but couldn’t handle having to watch for them in my own home. Ticks are multiplying rapidly due to global warming. They prefer hot, dry weather, so it’s becoming increasingly important to avoid the areas where they’re prevalent. Even if you never go hiking, you need to avoid brushing against tall grasses/plants and sometimes that means landscaping beside office buildings and parking lots.
Culture
Although I enjoy speaking to people whose interests and politics differ from mine, I still prefer to live among a majority of people who share my values and lifestyle. I think that’s normal. Since I’ve lived most of my life in liberal, educated, health-conscious, safe, nature-loving Marin County, CA, I’ve been looking for a place like Marin. Strictly on the basis of their having culture, access to nature and population size similar to Marin, I considered the obvious choices:
Boulder, CO (severe long-term drought)
Ithaca, NY
Ann Arbor, MI
Minneapolis, MN (certain suburbs)
Burlington, VT
Austin, TX (ok, to be fair, this one is much larger than Marin, and too hot already!)
Asheville, NC (their forests are already burning each year, despite the humidity)
Missoula, MT (drought and wildfires)
Taos, NM (drought)
Yellow Springs, OH (hot, humid summers)
Bellingham, WA (my choice! See climate data on Whatcom County, which scores well if you avoid places with sea-level rise)
Bellevue, WA (Sadly, there are so many ultra-rich yuppies in Marin now, you could add Bellevue, WA to this list. It’s similar.)
Several of these places will suffer increasingly from drought or hot, humid summers as global warming increases, so it doesn’t make sense to move there to avoid climate change. Again, if you look at the sheer number of counties with the best climate-change scores by state, Vermont is very impressive. In fact, they are #1 in the country for weathering climate change, according to the Pro Publica data (https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/), with Lamoille County being #1 in the whole US. Still, the West Coast has always been my home and I want to stay here.
So, that leaves me with the question of what to do to escape toxic wildfire smoke full of particulate matter not just from trees, but from cars, paint, motor oil, insulation, old asbestos-containing ceiling tiles, etc. Anyone who stays on the West Coast during fire season is likely to breathe that during fire season over the next decade or two. Wearing masks and staying indoors as much as possible/buying HEPA filters for my home and car will help, but it’s difficult and unhealthy to stay indoors 3 months out of every year without the ability to safely open the window for fresh air during that time. I’m considering staying in an AirBnB in the Midwest or East Coast for a considerable part of fire season each year since I already telecommute, and even though the smoke from the West Coast reaches those areas, it’s at higher elevations and is dispersed and far less toxic. This plan will mean paying double the rent three months out of the year...and despite currently living in Marin, I’m not rich. I wonder if tech wizards will develop super-powered HEPA filters that can safely filter a whole house on a regular basis as a result of these annual fire seasons. Then I wouldn’t have to flee for part of each year. Maybe we’ll stick them in our windows like A/C units, and they’ll suck in air from the outside and fully purify it before it enters our houses.
I’m also well aware that this plan is totally outside the reach of people who can’t telecommute and have kids in school during fire season which tends to be in the fall. I am a single, happily childless telecommuter and am grateful that I have these options.
I’ve heard pundits forecast that people with the means to do so will become “smoke birds” instead of “snow birds”; traveling to escape the yearly wildfires. That’s exactly what I plan to do. So then, I had to consider if I’m going to do that, why not just stay in Marin? The difference, however, is that in Western Washington I likely wouldn’t have to fear being burnt alive in the middle of the night from a massive wildfire if I don’t leave the area soon enough at the start of fire season, or from an off-season fire during a dry spring or winter. (I live in the city of Novato, very close to Sonoma County.) I also wouldn’t have to fear losing all my possessions in a fire while I’m away traveling to avoid the wildfire smoke. So, my solution is to move to Western Washington State, but still travel for at least the worst part of fire season to avoid the smoke.
Another option I've seriously considered is buying a mobile tiny house, or at least a sprinter van to live in during wildfire season, and drive away from the worst of the smoke. However, that's not very eco-friendly unless you have an electric or hybrid vehicle. I think a lot of people with the means to do this will start considering it as an option during fire season. I think the laws restricting tiny houses will be forced to change in the future as climate change refugees pour in to the climate safe havens and housing in these areas becomes even more scarce. We'll have larger and more plentiful RV parks as a result, and a significant portion of those living in them will be there temporarily as "smoke birds". Some may live in their tiny house year-round and just move it periodically to escape the smoke, or flooding, or hot/humid summers etc as the effects of climate change increase. On the one hand I have the urge to buy land now somewhere that's likely to be safe long-term. On the other hand, due to the vagaries of climate change, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to be completely mobile and able to pick up and leave with no financial loss when climate disasters strike. If telecommuting becomes permanent for many, as pundits say it will, this may be an option for a significant portion of Americans.
All of this is almost funny, in a morbid sense, that I or anyone should have to weigh all of these considerations just to find a place or lifestyle that isn’t a serious threat to my health and life. However, that’s life during global warming, and it will only get worse unless we turn things around, which is no small task at this point.
I don’t mean to sound depressing. In a strange way, the wildfires are at least doing some good by making it so apparent that we need to take global warming seriously, not in the future, but right now. It’s a decision between life and death. Anyways, thank you all for your responses. I wish you good health and hope that you all find your own safe havens from climate change.
If you're going to move to the PNW I'd suggest you come up with a plan on where to move to next, should you find the PNW is not working out for you. I lived there for 5 years (moved from bay area) and in year 3 I realized I had to get out of there. Living there 1 year is not enough to fully appreciate how difficult it is to live there. I'll never move back there, mostly due to the weather. Since I've left I've had friends move there and now that they have been there a couple of years I'm starting to hear it, "This is a hard place to live".
Have you considered the mid Atlantic: DC, MD, eastern PA?
Hawaii?
How about other countries?
If you're going to move to the PNW I'd suggest you come up with a plan on where to move to next, should you find the PNW is not working out for you. I lived there for 5 years (moved from bay area) and in year 3 I realized I had to get out of there. Living there 1 year is not enough to fully appreciate how difficult it is to live there. I'll never move back there, mostly due to the weather. Since I've left I've had friends move there and now that they have been there a couple of years I'm starting to hear it, "This is a hard place to live".
Have you considered the mid Atlantic: DC, MD, eastern PA?
Hawaii?
How about other countries?
Thank you for your comment. What did you find hard about the PNW?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So, basically, to other states with wildfire issues? 
NV may not burn, because there isn't much there to burn in the first place, but they're the first to get the smoke from fires in the Sierra range. 
