San Francisco is a Progressive City... (Los Angeles: hairstyles, home, high school)

[Michael Di Meo]

Long story short, visited SF many times, sister lived there for a while...
Had a phone interview yesterday with a company there (professional job in Corporate Finance), and then there was a follow-up today to get my feelings on the city because they expresed interest in flying me in to meet face to face next week.

They asked me about the city, and I told them that I've just been there as a tourist, even if I have been more times that I can count - but I've just never lived there. Had a sister there...ex-girlfriend from there, etc.

Well, I am not sure why I said it, but I said that I would be looking forward to live in such a socially progressive city... but it kind of sounded stupid the way I said it. In any case, the female interviewer responded "well, I can totally understand as you're from Miami - Miami is hardly a bastion of progressivism...". (I actually have lived in Paris more than any other city, but I'm based in MIA presently).

I didn't have Miami in mind when I said it, I was just trying to succeed in an interview to get a trip there and meet them.

After we went through the details about when I would be able go there, and we hung up the phone, I'm thinking... well Miami is kind of a "live and let live" place in my opinion - which is one of the reasons I like it so much, and I've spent most of my career living in Europe. Sure, Miami won't be legalizing marijuana next year like California, and we don't have an Oaksterdam... of course if you want great weed, usually it's best to know a Miami police officer here, as they generally have the best access to it, LOL.

But then I started thinking, as a tourist visiting my sister many times, I am kind of at a loss explaining what makes San Francisco so progressive. Honestly I am pretty ignorant regarding what makes a US city progressive and why Miami is not considered progressive by the interviewer.

The whole "progressive" thing confuses me. In France, Paris is considered progressive, in Germany Berlin and Köln are that way... and there's Barcelona, Amsterdam, and the list goes on etc etc - but all of these places are so different from each other, and San Francisco is totally different then they are.

Anyways, I would be moving there for a great job, not because I think it's more progressive than Miami, because I have no idea at all how it could be progressive, other than legalizing marijuana and other media-hyped stories. I am totally ignorant.

I asked my neighbor, a music producer, who said that people in SF just think they are more progressive than anyone else, but in reality it's not necessarily true. They live off of their rep and drink their kool aid.

Any ideas?

[sav858]

Originally Posted by HappyDaysCopenhagenSkoal

I asked my neighbor, a music producer, who said that people in SF just think they are more progressive than anyone else, but in reality it's not necessarily true. They live off of their rep and drink their kool aid.

Any ideas?

This hit the nail on the head basically. Of course not everyone is that full of it, just some of the people. Other than gay rights and environmental issues I don't see what makes SF anymore progressive than most big cities. Crime, public education, homelessness, poverty, affordable housing, etc.. when SF manages to do a good job at addressing those basic quality of life issues then maybe they might have something to brag about with regards to their "progressiveness" compared to other cities.

Miami-Dade Metro is the most progressive, left leaning part of Florida and probably much of the southeast. And yes it does have a live and let live attitude more so than most cities. A study ranked it Miami and Vegas as the top 2 cities for personal freedoms.

Sf can just feel like a ideological circle jerk sometimes with a lot of people just feeding off each other's "progressiveness".

[clongirl]

Long story short? lol

What's your question..if San Francisco is "progressive"?

Progressive depends on your own definition. San Francisco is a politically liberal city..if that's what you mean, then yes., it can be considered progressive.

[Michael Di Meo]

Originally Posted by clongirl

Long story short? lol

What's your question..if San Francisco is "progressive"?

Progressive depends on your own definition. San Francisco is a politically liberal city..if that's what you mean, then yes., it can be considered progressive.

Politically liberal to me does not mean progressive, it just means politically liberal, and that's in contrast to economic neo-liberalism which is a totally different animal.

But yes, you answered my question - the interviewer was just subjective in her analysis. I didn't ask her "what's your definition of progressive". She obviously had something specific in mind.

My question for this thread is "what is progressive"? The answer is just what you said... it really depends on one's own definition. That's what I thought. The word seems way too vague. Of course, I didn't look it up in the dictionary.

[uptown_urbanist]

I think your neighbor is right. It is more progressive than many cities in some regards, but I think the notion that it is alone in that regard is over-hyped. I suppose one difference is even the Bay Area suburbs tend to be fairly liberal (which I know isn't exactly what you're getting at), while in many cities the core city and inner suburbs are progressive and liberal, while the middle and outer suburbs tend to be far more culturally and politically conservative.

[clongirl]

Originally Posted by HappyDaysCopenhagenSkoal

Politically liberal to me does not mean progressive, it just means politically liberal, and that's in contrast to economic neo-liberalism which is a totally different animal.

But yes, you answered my question - the interviewer was just subjective in her analysis. I didn't ask her "what's your definition of progressive". She obviously had something specific in mind.

My question for this thread is "what is progressive"? The answer is just what you said... it really depends on one's own definition. That's what I thought. The word seems way too vague. Of course, I didn't look it up in the dictionary.

I also believe that so many people have this image/stereotype of San Francisco, so many of the extremist types think they will "fit right in" or be readily accepted.

I recently read a news story of some loosely organized cake throwing "get togethers" where masses of people are texted to show up and start throwing cake and making a huge mess in the streets. Only young newcomers that recently arrived into San Francisco would pull such a stunt (cost the city thousands to clean up, and messed up traffic). Perhaps this was their interpretation of "progressive" and why they came here in the first place (to act up, show off, or rebel against mom and dad back home in Idaho).

But for most locals, this sort of thing is more of an embarrassment since it seems to perpetuate and attract this style of childish and selfish behavior.

So someone might think that's considered progressive..I do not. I have lived in Europe and I'd say that there are plenty of progressive towns/cities but not necessarily in a political sense. More of a social sense.

My own opinion is that it has more to do with a mindset of collective happiness and sense of community. People "scratch each others backs" in these progressive minded towns and you don't really find my definition of it here. People tended to place high value on the community rather than individually.

[SeanAaron]

Half of San Francisco would stop all "progression" at the sight of a spider

"Omg a spiderrrr, get it, get it, ewwwww" lol

[UB50]

I used to think California (the whole state) wasn't that much different from other states. It's taken me over 20 years to realize that we really are "progressive" in ways that we probably don't even realize.

Just one example: Fashion. I grew up in Florida. A few of my high school classmates moved to California and a couple were able to go back to the reunions. I still remember some of my friends (who never left the South) oohing and aahing over a fellow Californian's sunglasses. It seems she wore the hippest sunglasses ever to the reunion. While one of my friends was trying to describe these awesome sunglasses to me (Just the bestest ever, the most trendy, the most up-to-date) I had absolutely no idea what she was talking about.

The other day, I was researching Japanese anime hairstyles. They've been popular here in Los Angeles for a few years now. I think most of the country is way far behind on this fashion trend. If you live in Florida, good luck finding a hairstylist who can even handle the cut, let alone the dye job if you want to go multi-colored.

In politics, it's the same thing. California passed the first medical marajuana laws in the country. California passed Prop 13 (which other states are starting to pass versions of).

It's a lot of stuff like that. California really is progressive. We just don't realize it.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Lots of gays come here from the boonies, where indeed they may have gotten hassled or had difficult coming out experiences. They arrive here, it is, for them, like Nirvana. So that is certainly a major factor in why there is so much self congratulation about "progressivism."

Also, over time, a combination of cost factors and overt social engineering have pushed many middle income heterosexual, native born and 1st and 2nd generation folks out of the City if not out of the area or state outright. Such folks tend to be socially conservative, albeit fiscally moderate to liberal. Nonetheless, they are not exactly the sort of crowd lots of "escapees" from other places like to hang out with. So as they leave, they tend not to be missed by the new elites. This has also lent to the overall "vibe" of a place that believes it has executed a sort of slow burn "progressive revolution."

[NorCal Dude]

Oh please BayAreaHillBilly. Gays have been comming to SF since it was the main point of discharge for men found to be homosexual in the United states Navy in ww2. Many of these men couldn't go back home to face their families after this. In california or else where. So they stayed in SF and settled. And there are the roots of SF's gay community.

And SF's population being pushed out was a combination of the decline of manufacturing jobs in the city, coupled with the dot com boom, which brought "outsiders" with their venture capital to SF. Started in the 80's and picked up steam in the 1990s.

Though Gays have often been a popular scape goat for the anti gentrification crowd, they are no different than most, like everyone else, they move to SF, stay awhile, and usually find some place more affordable to live. SF really is not the gay mecca it was in the late 70's(though the tourism department would have you think otherwise!). Every city in America has a gay district these days. Even in the south.