Oakland Projects and Business Development (San Jose, San Francisco: schedule, waterfront, culture)

[Bisaro TMF]

Originally Posted by mini_cute

How would moving to SJ make him more money? Is it because the residents there are more affluent? Larger population base? Or too much overlap with SF Giants?

I guess I can see why he'd want to take them there.

Same reason the 49ers moved there silicon valley. It's where the money is.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by sav858

What of that was actually related to the ballpark? The Embarcadero came about because of them tearing down the freeway after the quake. Jack London Square has been slowly redeveloping for a while now, I don't understand why you discount that area as if there's nothing already happening in this area. This is about building a ballpark first and foremost as the team needs it. This proposal is pretty early in its infancy so I'm not sure exactly what you're expecting as far as redevelopment proposals.

I'd have a lot more enthusiasm if the cute little mock ups included more about the plan for connecting the adjacent areas and creating a neighborhood. Right now we have a pretty ballpark in the middle of an industrial zone.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by jade408

I'd have a lot more enthusiasm if the cute little mock ups included more about the plan for connecting the adjacent areas and creating a neighborhood. Right now we have a pretty ballpark in the middle of an industrial zone.

Which is basically what the coliseum is now, minus the pretty ballpark

They need to think bigger and BEYOND what that area already is. For the hundreds of millions of dollars(potentially 800-1B in all) theyre talking about spending I would like to see something that is incorporated more into Jack London Square and NOT the port, I mean 'cranes'? Really?

[jade408]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Which is basically what the coliseum is now, minus the pretty ballpark

They need to think bigger and BEYOND what that area already is. For the hundreds of millions of dollars(potentially 800-1B in all) theyre talking about spending I would like to see something that is incorporated more into Jack London Square and NOT the port, I mean 'cranes'? Really?

Yup. I mean considering we have waited a decade for a plan, it at least needs to look like they have spent the past 10 years thinking about it. I mean any of us could have played fantasy ball park and plopped a stadium next to the water. That was ok a few years ago. But now we are well past the put up or shut up phase. The plan needs to feel real, well thought out and probable over a concrete timeline.

[CirclingLogan]

Originally Posted by mini_cute

As Sav858 said in her reply, AT&T Park may not be that close to a BART station, but it has the Caltrain station and 2 muni stops next to it. Not to mention it is next to the embarcadero and steps from the Ferry Building. The Howard Terminal location and AT&T Park location really are not the same in terms of transit, access, and amenities (current and potential).

Every time I've gone to AT&T, I've walked from Montgomery or somewhere on mid-Market and so are hundreds of other people. I don't think most suburbanites (the bulk of baseball fans) even know how to use Muni.

Also your last statement is inaccurate. My view on the location is not skewed by decades of auto-centric planning. If you knew me, you'd know I am anti-car planning and an active bike activist and urbanist. And I have not only lived in California (lived in the only true urban city in the US, NYC). So your generalization doesn't apply to me.

Then it's skewed by other things, let's find out.

The reason why I don't like that location as much anymore is because it is next to the Port of Oakland. I thought it was going to be a beautiful spot convenient to downtown Oakland. But back in December, a cyclist was killed biking through there. She rode in the bike lane, had a multitude of bike lights on her bike and backpack and helmet, and was a skilled cyclist who obeyed the laws. She was killed by a large truck leaving the Port of Oakland. I realized after that, that mixing the Port of Oakland with non-car traffic could be a troublesome mix.

Pedestrians have been killed by motorists in the middle of SF, NYC, Paris, etc... not sure I get the point.

I can also see why Lew Wolff has reservations. There is a conflicting interest in that area. Ballpark uses vs. Port of Oakland uses. If it came down to it, Port of Oakland uses would probably win out over ballpark uses.

Perhaps.

But I am curious to hear from you all, what is so bad about the Coliseum location anyway?

Because I'd rather walk 15 minutes from a central BART station in the middle of the city surrounded by shops and restaurants to a ballpark on the Bay than make the trek out to the edge of the city, and traverse through raised walkways over parking lots with views of the ghetto.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by CirclingLogan

Every time I've gone to AT&T, I've walked from Montgomery or somewhere on mid-Market and so are hundreds of other people. I don't think most suburbanites (the bulk of baseball fans) even know how to use Muni.

They why are the Muni trains packed before and after a Giants game? Lots of people transfer at BART.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Which is basically what the coliseum is now, minus the pretty ballpark

They need to think bigger and BEYOND what that area already is. For the hundreds of millions of dollars(potentially 800-1B in all) theyre talking about spending I would like to see something that is incorporated more into Jack London Square and NOT the port, I mean 'cranes'? Really?

Originally Posted by jade408

Yup. I mean considering we have waited a decade for a plan, it at least needs to look like they have spent the past 10 years thinking about it. I mean any of us could have played fantasy ball park and plopped a stadium next to the water. That was ok a few years ago. But now we are well past the put up or shut up phase. The plan needs to feel real, well thought out and probable over a concrete timeline.

You guys seemed more concerned with redevelopment than the actual ballpark and team. This proposal is about the team, their need for a new home, and their fans. The focus right now isn't on redeveloping the area into trendy bars, restaurants, apts/condo's, etc... That stuff would likely follow but this isn't about that which is why it's not being talked about much in these articles.

[mini_cute]

Originally Posted by CirclingLogan

Every time I've gone to AT&T, I've walked from Montgomery or somewhere on mid-Market and so are hundreds of other people. I don't think most suburbanites (the bulk of baseball fans) even know how to use Muni.


Then it's skewed by other things, let's find out.


Pedestrians have been killed by motorists in the middle of SF, NYC, Paris, etc... not sure I get the point.


Perhaps.


Because I'd rather walk 15 minutes from a central BART station in the middle of the city surrounded by shops and restaurants to a ballpark on the Bay than make the trek out to the edge of the city, and traverse through raised walkways over parking lots with views of the ghetto.

The point is that there are lots of very large and heavy trucks coming and going from the Port of Oakland, the 5th busiest port in the nation. That is different and more dangerous than simply taxis whizzing through Manhattan hitting people. So, more people in the area mixing with those trucks mean more bad accidents. Those large trucks are much more dangerous than regular cars. 1/3 of all bicycle collisions involve large trucks and when trucks do hit people, they aren't just banged up badly- they are killed. The reason there aren't a lot of fatalities there now is because there aren't a lot of people on foot or on bikes going through there. I don't buy the whole, "lots of bicyclists go through there now just fine". No, not a lot of cyclists go through there now and certainly not the amount of people that would be there if it turned in to a ballpark/entertainment center. Anyone who truly bikes or walks through there knows there aren't a lot of people around there now- its a desolate place.

You have to admit that there are some drawbacks to Howard Terminal and I think this is one of them. No project site is going to be 100% positive.

You want to know what I am skewed by? Well, I am not a sports fan so I don't have this burning desire to have this stadium there and I think Oakland can redevelop just fine without it. I'd rather have it done right and Oakland doesn't need to be an SF part 2.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by sav858

You guys seemed more concerned with redevelopment than the actual ballpark and team. This proposal is about the team, their need for a new home, and their fans. The focus right now isn't on redeveloping the area into trendy bars, restaurants, apts/condo's, etc... That stuff would likely follow but this isn't about that which is why it's not being talked about much in these articles.

Yes, I would hope that such developments would follow, but if we don't plan the entire area NOW in such a way that is conducive to that sort of future, I fear that we are simply building a coliseum-like situation only now close to the port. The whole cranes thing just baffles me. WHY? exactly?

Also, I'm pretty certain that if Lew Wolff actually wanted to be a part of all this, he'd be very interested in developing the surrounding area as well.

But yeah, I am very interested in creating a neighborhood, not just building a stadium, guilty as charged. LOL

[sav858]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Yes, I would hope that such developments would follow, but if we don't plan the entire area NOW in such a way that is conducive to that sort of future, I fear that we are simply building a coliseum-like situation only now close to the port. The whole cranes thing just baffles me. WHY? exactly?

Also, I'm pretty certain that if Lew Wolff actually wanted to be a part of all this, he'd be very interested in developing the surrounding area as well.

But yeah, I am very interested in creating a neighborhood, not just building a stadium, guilty as charged. LOL

It's just a sketch, I don't think any firm designs have even been developed so I wouldn't worry too much about the cranes yet.

This site is immediately adjacent to a neighborhood that is desirable and has been redeveloping for a while. Unless they decided to build a stadium made for football surrounded by huge surface lots I'm not seeing how this site has any sort of chance of being like the Coliseum. Pretty sure there was no comprehensive blueprint for the area around AT&T to redevelop with the stadium plan. I just don't get why the people who want to build this stadium and possibly buy the team are responsible for coming up with some comprehensive redevelopment plan for the area. Again, this is about the team and the park, not people's redevelopment fantasies.

Also isn't JLS already planned and redeveloping in a way conducive to this stadium? I mean there are some shops, restaurants, new condos/apts, a decent waterfront already there. So isn't that direction the area is already going and has been for a while? There's already a neighborhood right next to the site.